Aw Geez, how could I do that

The Ironhead's were developed from the K model in 1957. They were preceded by the EVO Sportster in 1985. This was the longest running production of any motorcycle.

The Sportster got its start in the only place it could possible have been conceived. The Company's race program. A few adventurous souls from Engineering began experimenting with an overhead-valve version of our famous K racer. In 1957, it came together in a new motorcycle the like of which had never been seen. The Sportster was born.

When the Ironhead Sportster first appeared in 1957, it combined high-tech four-cam OHV design with the reliability of cast iron cylinder heads. This bike was a reply to the Brit-bike challenge, and hot rodders immediately set to work matching its great looks with increased performance

 

Here is where I think Harley really needs to improve.

1) Reliability/Quality Control.

They are building one of the simplest machines out on the road and have been doing so for years, and they still can't get it right. That is amazing. For example, the valve seal problem. 04 bikes were fine. 05 bikes are not. How you can take steps backward instead of forward just baffles me. With the money they charge for bikes you would expect the company to do proper testing. Look at the new 6 speed transmissions in the Dynas. You have to sign a contract to have the bearing replaced every so often for quality control? Shouldn't you test the product before you put it on production bikes?

Here is what I do not want to see. Reliability improved with simplicity suffering. Working on these bikes is a dream. If they kept them simple and reliable, then they would have a winner. I despise working on Honda's. For example, you have to remove all the plastic and the seat and unplug all the electronic components on a new goldwing just to change the air filter? $300 in labor. On some Yamaha's you have to remove the rear wheel just to get to the oil filter. And the list continues for the metrics. That is ridiculous. I'll work on a Harley anyday.

2) Service Department.

The sales department at the dealerships I went to is phenominal. Absolutely, the best of any dealership. They really know how to treat a customer. The service department is one of the worst I have seen. Just horrible. With the problems that the machines have I would be much more satisfied if the service department was great as well. If they only took the time to fix/recall the problems properly, then I would have no problem. But they don't. The dealership just tells you it's normal. You have to pay numerous visits and several headaches just to get something fixed.

For example, I went to 3-4 dealerships because my bike wasn't running right. With 2-3 visits just to the last dealership just to get the problem solved. They tried to tell me things like don't worry your bike is running at 250+ degrees that's normal. Don't worry about the performance that's how a stock sportster should run. Don't worry it's running 30 degrees hotter than you friend's bike it's the chrome. Guess what? After tons of persistence, they finally found an intake leak and fixed it. Now the bike doesn't go above 200 degrees, runs like a raped ape on the highway, and no difference in temperature between my friends bike. What ticks me off it they still didn't fix the rear brake squeal after mentioning it several time. The service manager actually noticed it when he was backing my bike up and said "that doesn't sound right". So I thought. Now they really have to fix it. Picked up my bike and it's not fixed. They said they couldn't "recreate" the problem. After the service manager made it squeal. That is completely unacceptable!

If harley did those two things; (1) Improved reliability/quality without sacraficing simplicity and/or (2) had a competent service department, then I would ride nothing else except Harley's (not that I ride anything else now).

 

They need to reduce the weight of their bikes. So many components are made from heavy steel when they could use aluminum. A perfect example are the foot peg mounts on my 04 Superglide and the swing arms. Also, when I wash my bike, water gets into the fuse box. It corroded my fuses. That's just bad engineering.

 

The only point I think I can add is most riders that I know don't trust dealerships. I am not a Harley mechanic or have much experience with motorcycles, but I have worked on cars for years. When talking with the local HD shop, they recommended I just replace everything that could possibly have an impact on my problem. Then I asked if that is how they would do the work and was told yes. This sounds a lot to me like throwing parts at a problem instead of diagnosing and fixing the problem. If you read the threads on here, then you will find quite a few where riders returned from a dealer and their problem wasn't fixed correctly or a service wasn't completed. These incidents place dealer integrity in question.

 

Oh, almost forgot.

Once again TCSTD, I learned a lot from your post.

Keep up the good work

 

damn tc dont your fingeres get tired?

 

Thanks ED, appreciate your thanks.

 

Now to comment on some things others wrote.

I'm going to have to completely disagree. Harley fit and finish is far superior. They use a lot more steel and rubber vs. Japanese pot metal and plastic. The paint on harley's is better, the clear coat is thicker, and they use real chrome instead of chromed plastic like the Japanese. On top of that Harley guages are more accurate. A Japanese speedo will read 60mph while going 65, while a harley will read more toward 63 mph. You can do what I call the wobble test. Go up to a Japanese cruiser and try to wobble the fenders, gas tank, lights, etc. and see what happens. You will notice that the fenders (usually not even metal or very shabby) will wobble, the gas tank can be wobbled, and the lights mounted via plastic can be snapped off with your bare hands,etc. (I have done this to 04-05 Japanese cruisers so I don't know how it was before 04). Do the same thing to a Harley. You will notice that ever part of the Harley is rock solid. Fit and finish is not something the Japanese have against Harley.

The place that Japance bikes excel is the engine and price. They have rock solid, relaible, powerful engines and cost less than Harley's. I would say they have better transmissions, but that's really up in the air. They have smoother shifting and quieter transmissions, while the harley's have loud transmissions (straight cut vs. helical gears), but they also suffer from more misshifts and transmission problems. Harley transmissions, from my experience, are reliable but loud. Personally, I prefer straight cut gear Harley transmissions.

The place where Harley fit and finish suffers is the bolts. Simply, they rust.


That's true, but the old camaro's and chevelles still have a lot of appeal. Even the kids that ride sport bikes love to look at old-style Harley's. To put it into perspective I'm 21 (the so called new generation) and ride a Harley. I love the old build quality. Lots of heavy steel and rubber with a loud pushrod engine. What pushed me in that direction? Probably my dad's old cars when I was young and owning a Honda Civic. I learned that the Honda civic has more than it's share of problems and on top of that it has toilet paper thin sheet metal and a slow engine.

No. No. No. I bought the Harley mainly because it was made of heavy steel. I love steel and hate aluminum/plastic (excludes the engine). Harley's are on par with the weight of big Japanese cruisers without all that plastic and aluminum, which just doesn't look as good as steel and chrome. Look at a Honda VTX 1300 it weighs 640 lbs dry. Comparable to the Dyna line. These are cruisers not sport bikes. There is nothing wrong with the weight of Harley's. Heavier bikes suffer less from wind blasts on the highways.

Steel is awesome. I have seem Harley's go through trailer doors with absolutely no damage to the bike. When I was trailering three bikes they tore up that trailer with absolutely no damage to the bikes. To put it into perspective look at this steel vs. aluminum/plastic crash. Make sure to scroll down and look at all t

 

1200C,

Wow, lot's of knowledge for someone your age...very impressive! Sorry to do this but I have to respectfully disagree with some of your conclusions. First, Harley's paint may look better at the start but it is far from superior. My '06 Street Glide, after only 6 weeks, has swirl marks where my jeans rub on the gas tank while riding...Harley jeans no less! No rivets, no zippers, no buttons, just plain old cotton wearing the paint. I had a rain coat bungeed to the passenger backrest and one of the sleeves got loose and whipped around in the wind on a recent 50 mile ride. The plastic/elastic sleeve from this garmet scratched the top of my hardbag. Second, Harley gauges are the worst! Any dealer will tell you that the air temp gauge on all baggers is useless because it is mounted inside the fairing which is usually a dark color. These units will be as much as 30 degrees off on warm days. The fuel gauges vary immensely from one bike to another and the gauge on my bike shows a full tank for the first 100 miles after a fill, shows a 1/2 tank after another 50 miles and then crashes all the way to empty over the next 30 miles. Most of the speedometers bounce erratically on many models and there is a problem that is often talked about on this forum of moisture getting into the speedometers (fit and finish?). Third, the turn signals, fenders and all that other metal may feel rock solid but they cannot handle the salt vapors found in most garages in our northern states. My '02 Sportie had rust on the inside of its' fenders and flaking chrome on its' wheels after one winter. As far as the turn signals, don't point a garden hose at them...they will have moisture in them for days.

Don't get me wrong, I like my Harley but I want, need, desire, demand that the MOCO does better. If they don't, I (and many others I suspect) will be forced to look at Victory, Triumph, Yamaha and Honda.

 

Solorider,

I'm not going to quote anything you said, but just comment on it. First, the swirl marks will happen on anything. The color of the paint will determine how visible they will be. I have a black Honda and no matter what I do there are swirls in the paint. So I just gave up trying to eliminate/prevent them. When I was reffering to better paint I was implying when Harley gets it right, as we all know they have quality control issues. Harry Hurt has a 1947 (? not sure about the date, but an old bike) Harley still with it's original paint.

As for the rest of the comments on guages and flaking paint, I'm going to agree. However, I'm going to attribute a lot of that to quality control problems and not fit and finish. Why? Because others can have exactly the same bike and while your fender's paint job was done wrong theirs wasn't. Although, yours flakes your buddies will go on for years. If they did it right, then you would have the quality you paid for. However, I can see how you would consider that to be fit and finish so I get your point 100%. I just decided to attribute it to quality control/design problems while you decided to attribute it to fit and finish.

Amen. I am getting fed up with my bike as well and also desire and demand more. If only Harley did more testing or hired better engineers or something to eliminate all the problems of things not working the way they should, then they would be a much better and stronger company. They have a great idea of keeping it simple and easy to wrench on and put on nice heavy quality (I use the term quality here loosly) parts, but there quality control is like non-existant. What really puts the nail in the coffin for them is that their dealers suck also.