02-13-2015, 01:41 PM
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Everything Breakout! Find out everything you need to know! Some topics include:
• Customizing you bike
• Seats
• Risers
• And much more!
For more information check out these threads:More Threads
• Customizing you bike
• Seats
• Risers
• And much more!
For more information check out these threads:More Threads
The Everything Breakout Thread
#5741
08-01-2017 | 06:45 PM
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 308
From: "Old Hangtown" Placerville Ca.
The oil leak is definitely from the air cleaner!
The oil stain is strictly limited to the area right under the air cleaner. No "tracks" from pushrod tubes, cylinder bases, or crankcase cover below the top of the cover
Here is a photo showing an oil drop I caught still hanging off the air cleaner:
In the 3rd photo, I used a paper towel to wipe the bottom of the air cleaner, and the photo shows the oil on the paper towel:
Before I left Texas to move to Canada, my trusted mechanic at the local Austin dealership had told me and others during a performance seminar that induction of too much oil into the air cleaner is common on these engines.
The ingestion of this volume of oil into the engine cannot be good. It's likely causing carboning of the combustion chambers, and maybe even affecting fuel injection by contaminating the intake tract.
I don't knwo what I can do about it though.
I have an oil change at the new "local" (85 miles away!) HD dealership in Victoria, British Columbia on Thursday 8-03, and have alerted the service writer that I'd like the technician to take a look. I suspect that at a minimum, I need a new air filter. I'll also find out if the dealership has any constructive suggestions.
I had recently made one change in my riding style: Some HD owners have told me that it is undesirable to run these engines below about 2200 rpm when cruising, as the compensator doesn't react well to low rpm, and wears quickly when subjected to low rpm for long periods. So, I had made a conscious effort to stay in a lower gear versus shifting up when I would have already shifted. Thus, I have been cruising often at 2500 to 2700 rpm where it would have been 2000 to 2200 beforehand. (Note that I have done the 30-70 regearing that we have a separate thread about on the Softail forum, and with that gearing, there is no need to spin the engine higher than 2200 when "cruising" in any gear other than 6th)
Interestingly, this oil from the air cleaner issue appeared after I made that change. The gas mileage also was a bit lower, but that is expected when you run higher cruising rpm. Maybe I should change back to my lower-rpm cruising habits?
By the way, my Breakout oil changes have always been done by the dealership, and the accessory HD "electronic dipstick" has always shown the oil to be at the correct level. (EVen after this leak, so the leak is evidently not big despite the appearance)
Jim G
The oil stain is strictly limited to the area right under the air cleaner. No "tracks" from pushrod tubes, cylinder bases, or crankcase cover below the top of the cover
Here is a photo showing an oil drop I caught still hanging off the air cleaner:
In the 3rd photo, I used a paper towel to wipe the bottom of the air cleaner, and the photo shows the oil on the paper towel:
Before I left Texas to move to Canada, my trusted mechanic at the local Austin dealership had told me and others during a performance seminar that induction of too much oil into the air cleaner is common on these engines.
The ingestion of this volume of oil into the engine cannot be good. It's likely causing carboning of the combustion chambers, and maybe even affecting fuel injection by contaminating the intake tract.
I don't knwo what I can do about it though.
I have an oil change at the new "local" (85 miles away!) HD dealership in Victoria, British Columbia on Thursday 8-03, and have alerted the service writer that I'd like the technician to take a look. I suspect that at a minimum, I need a new air filter. I'll also find out if the dealership has any constructive suggestions.
I had recently made one change in my riding style: Some HD owners have told me that it is undesirable to run these engines below about 2200 rpm when cruising, as the compensator doesn't react well to low rpm, and wears quickly when subjected to low rpm for long periods. So, I had made a conscious effort to stay in a lower gear versus shifting up when I would have already shifted. Thus, I have been cruising often at 2500 to 2700 rpm where it would have been 2000 to 2200 beforehand. (Note that I have done the 30-70 regearing that we have a separate thread about on the Softail forum, and with that gearing, there is no need to spin the engine higher than 2200 when "cruising" in any gear other than 6th)
Interestingly, this oil from the air cleaner issue appeared after I made that change. The gas mileage also was a bit lower, but that is expected when you run higher cruising rpm. Maybe I should change back to my lower-rpm cruising habits?
By the way, my Breakout oil changes have always been done by the dealership, and the accessory HD "electronic dipstick" has always shown the oil to be at the correct level. (EVen after this leak, so the leak is evidently not big despite the appearance)
Jim G
Last edited by Rocker B; 08-01-2017 at 06:48 PM.
#5742
08-01-2017 | 06:59 PM
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 635
Likes: 46
From: North Jersey, USA
SHAZAM!
I used one of these kits ... no more oil in the air filter...no more oil contaminating the inlet tract.
When I do an oil change I just blast the little filter with parts cleaner.
http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/All-...ngines_c76.htm
....and, like Rocker B, I keep the oil level half way between "ADD" and "FULL".
I used one of these kits ... no more oil in the air filter...no more oil contaminating the inlet tract.
When I do an oil change I just blast the little filter with parts cleaner.
http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/All-...ngines_c76.htm
....and, like Rocker B, I keep the oil level half way between "ADD" and "FULL".
Last edited by NSR; 08-01-2017 at 07:02 PM.
#5743
08-01-2017 | 07:01 PM
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,521
Likes: 421
From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
Oil coming out of the air cleaners on HD is a common problem, that I heard about several years ago....and yes, riding hard makes it worse. The fix in most all the cases is too run less oil, like I said, about half way between add and full marks on the stick. Try taking out a little oil with a syringe or turkey baster, to the less then full level and see if that solves your problem....GOOD chance it will!!
In theory at least, in a dry sump system like we have, the oil pump is supposed to scavenge the oil out of the crankcase continuously. The vast majority of the oil is always in the tank!
Furthermore, even if the oil pump is incapable of perhaps keeping the crankcase oil level "low", the oil pump is driven at an rpm proportional to engine rpm (i.e. mechanical, not electric), so faster rpm simply means that oil entering the engine and oil leaving the engine are BOTH pumped faster, and exactly proportionately so. So, engine rpm should not, in theory, increase or reduce the amount of oil pooled in the crankcase.
I can understand how IN PRACTICE higher rpm might make the problem worse by creating more "splashing" and "misting" of oil, so that not all the oil is pumped back to the tank, but rather some of it is exhausted via the positive crankcase ventilation valve into the air cleaner.
But I just cannot see how lowering the level in the oil tank should make any difference to the issue. WHY does it?
Is it as simple as we sometimes gets "leakage" via gravity, from the oil tank, past any pump seals, to the crankcase, while the bike is sitting with the engine OFF, and this "excess" oil in the crankcase gets splashed and misted when the engine gets running, and so gets thrown out the PCV system into the air cleaner? IF this is the case, a slightly lower oil level in the tank would create slightly less hydraulic "head", which would result in slower leakage from the tank back into the engine. Is this what happens?
Or, otherwise, WHY does a lower oil level in the tank help the situation?
Jim G
#5744
08-01-2017 | 07:09 PM
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,521
Likes: 421
From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
SHAZAM!
I used one of these kits ... no more oil in the air filter...no more oil contaminating the inlet tract.
When I do an oil change I just blast the little filter with parts cleaner.
http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/All-...ngines_c76.htm
....and, like Rocker B, I keep the oil level half way between "ADD" and "FULL".
I used one of these kits ... no more oil in the air filter...no more oil contaminating the inlet tract.
When I do an oil change I just blast the little filter with parts cleaner.
http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/All-...ngines_c76.htm
....and, like Rocker B, I keep the oil level half way between "ADD" and "FULL".
Ok, so the problem is solved by diverting the oil mist form the crankcase away from the air cleaner and to either an external filter or a simply plastic line with nothing on the end? Obviously, the small external filter is at least in theory betetr than a simple "uncapped" external line, as the engine crankcase experiences VACUUM versus excessive pressure, at different times in the crank rotation, and you don't want the engine INgesting UNfiltered air via the PCV system.
The page you linked shows many different systems. Which system is the easiest to install and to maintain?
Simpler install is important because I now live in a condo building with a super clean underground garage where any mechanical work on a bike or car is strictly forbidden, so I would need to pay a shop to do the install!
Jim G
#5745
08-01-2017 | 07:30 PM
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 635
Likes: 46
From: North Jersey, USA
Maintain? Just spray the filter with parts cleaner now-n-then. Done.
The install was simple. Take the air filter off the bike, clean base w/ parts cleaner (spray), drill a few holes for the fittings that come with the kit and then plug the H-D breather path with silicone. Then figure out a path-to-ground for the lines. Then cut the rubber hose to the required lengths. Then just put it all back together. I think I did it in an hour.
Easy-peezy-japan-easy ...
.....and SCREW condo/HOA rules.... lol
"My bikes busted and I'm fixing it. You gotta problem with that?"
Last edited by NSR; 08-01-2017 at 07:35 PM.
#5746
08-01-2017 | 07:36 PM
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 308
From: "Old Hangtown" Placerville Ca.
Thank-you, Rocker B. But, I am having trouble understanding WHY running less oil in the oil tank of a DRY-SUMP engine system should help.
In theory at least, in a dry sump system like we have, the oil pump is supposed to scavenge the oil out of the crankcase continuously. The vast majority of the oil is always in the tank!
Furthermore, even if the oil pump is incapable of perhaps keeping the crankcase oil level "low", the oil pump is driven at an rpm proportional to engine rpm (i.e. mechanical, not electric), so faster rpm simply means that oil entering the engine and oil leaving the engine are BOTH pumped faster, and exactly proportionately so. So, engine rpm should not, in theory, increase or reduce the amount of oil pooled in the crankcase.
I can understand how IN PRACTICE higher rpm might make the problem worse by creating more "splashing" and "misting" of oil, so that not all the oil is pumped back to the tank, but rather some of it is exhausted via the positive crankcase ventilation valve into the air cleaner.
But I just cannot see how lowering the level in the oil tank should make any difference to the issue. WHY does it?
Is it as simple as we sometimes gets "leakage" via gravity, from the oil tank, past any pump seals, to the crankcase, while the bike is sitting with the engine OFF, and this "excess" oil in the crankcase gets splashed and misted when the engine gets running, and so gets thrown out the PCV system into the air cleaner? IF this is the case, a slightly lower oil level in the tank would create slightly less hydraulic "head", which would result in slower leakage from the tank back into the engine. Is this what happens?
Or, otherwise, WHY does a lower oil level in the tank help the situation?
Jim G
In theory at least, in a dry sump system like we have, the oil pump is supposed to scavenge the oil out of the crankcase continuously. The vast majority of the oil is always in the tank!
Furthermore, even if the oil pump is incapable of perhaps keeping the crankcase oil level "low", the oil pump is driven at an rpm proportional to engine rpm (i.e. mechanical, not electric), so faster rpm simply means that oil entering the engine and oil leaving the engine are BOTH pumped faster, and exactly proportionately so. So, engine rpm should not, in theory, increase or reduce the amount of oil pooled in the crankcase.
I can understand how IN PRACTICE higher rpm might make the problem worse by creating more "splashing" and "misting" of oil, so that not all the oil is pumped back to the tank, but rather some of it is exhausted via the positive crankcase ventilation valve into the air cleaner.
But I just cannot see how lowering the level in the oil tank should make any difference to the issue. WHY does it?
Is it as simple as we sometimes gets "leakage" via gravity, from the oil tank, past any pump seals, to the crankcase, while the bike is sitting with the engine OFF, and this "excess" oil in the crankcase gets splashed and misted when the engine gets running, and so gets thrown out the PCV system into the air cleaner? IF this is the case, a slightly lower oil level in the tank would create slightly less hydraulic "head", which would result in slower leakage from the tank back into the engine. Is this what happens?
Or, otherwise, WHY does a lower oil level in the tank help the situation?
Jim G
#5747
08-01-2017 | 08:19 PM
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,521
Likes: 421
From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
#5748
08-02-2017 | 05:23 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,171
Likes: 1,944
From: Great State of Canada
Hi Jim
I don't seem to have your problem and I keep my oil tank FULL. That said, there seem to be an awful lot of posts on this entire forum, and others as well which offer that reducing oil content cures the "oil in the breather" problem. I'd be inclined to try the simple remedies first. A turkey baster is $0.99 at the Dollar Store. IIWY, I'd try that first. Whatcha got to loose,, $0.99 ?
I'd also suggest you start changing your own oil bro. Besides the $ it saves, you'll find that doing things on your own bike is a process. The more you do, the more you get to know your ride. In due course, doing your own maint & mods becomes part of the joy of ownership.
I don't seem to have your problem and I keep my oil tank FULL. That said, there seem to be an awful lot of posts on this entire forum, and others as well which offer that reducing oil content cures the "oil in the breather" problem. I'd be inclined to try the simple remedies first. A turkey baster is $0.99 at the Dollar Store. IIWY, I'd try that first. Whatcha got to loose,, $0.99 ?
I'd also suggest you start changing your own oil bro. Besides the $ it saves, you'll find that doing things on your own bike is a process. The more you do, the more you get to know your ride. In due course, doing your own maint & mods becomes part of the joy of ownership.
#5749
08-02-2017 | 07:26 AM
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,521
Likes: 421
From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
Hi Jim
I don't seem to have your problem and I keep my oil tank FULL. That said, there seem to be an awful lot of posts on this entire forum, and others as well which offer that reducing oil content cures the "oil in the breather" problem. I'd be inclined to try the simple remedies first. A turkey baster is $0.99 at the Dollar Store. IIWY, I'd try that first. Whatcha got to loose,, $0.99 ?
I'd also suggest you start changing your own oil bro. Besides the $ it saves, you'll find that doing things on your own bike is a process. The more you do, the more you get to know your ride. In due course, doing your own maint & mods becomes part of the joy of ownership.
I don't seem to have your problem and I keep my oil tank FULL. That said, there seem to be an awful lot of posts on this entire forum, and others as well which offer that reducing oil content cures the "oil in the breather" problem. I'd be inclined to try the simple remedies first. A turkey baster is $0.99 at the Dollar Store. IIWY, I'd try that first. Whatcha got to loose,, $0.99 ?
I'd also suggest you start changing your own oil bro. Besides the $ it saves, you'll find that doing things on your own bike is a process. The more you do, the more you get to know your ride. In due course, doing your own maint & mods becomes part of the joy of ownership.
As for doing my own maintenance: On past bikes I DID do virtually all my maintenance. But not on this one. My home for the past several years until last Fall had no garage and a gravel and caliche driveway with a 7% grade (40% worse than the steepest hills allowed on interstates). And since last Fall, as I stated above, I now live in a condo building where doing ANY maintenance in the garage is strictly prohibited. The only thing I can do now is wash the bike there, as the building has a designated car wash area with decent lighting, water faucet and hose, and floor drains.
This has not been a problem though, as I bought the Breakout brand new in 2014, and it has been remarkably troublefree, despite its Stage 4 race kit. My dealership at my last home in Austin Texas was excellent, and their maintenance costs, and even the mod costs for things like regearing to 30/70, were reasonable. Plus, the Breakout has really been more like a car than a bike in terms of maintenance required! I get to enjoy riding, and while wrenching can be fun too, riding is MORE fun!
Jim G
#5750
08-02-2017 | 07:42 AM
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 833
From: Texas
