The dealer has a bottom dollar he will sell for, knowing what he paid (or his margin) isn't going to change that figure.

I don't haggle or play their games, I made a cash offer, tax included and told them take it or leave it.

I don't know, or care what they made on the deal, and frankly don't think it's any of my business
(I don't ask Denny's what they pay for their eggs)

I knew what I was willing to pay before I walked in.

The moment they can drag you into a "negotiation" is the moment you've lost your advantage
(once you start negotiating, they know you really want what ever it is they are selling)

 

The problem is, he doesn't start there. He starts way, WAY above what he will sell for. If you pay what you are willing to pay and he takes it then you probably paid more than you had to. You could have got leathers and a whole lot more, including upgrades, etc. Are you, Earl IV, happy with that? Yes, but most people are not. Most people want to spend less and receive more, just like the dealer wants you to spend more and receive less. Knowing what the dealer paid levels the playing field. Otherwise, the dealer has vastly superior knowledge and uses that knowledge *against* you, not for you. Free market capitalism and supply and demand are based on each side striving for better knowledge and what is called "informed decision making." Anyone who walks away from knowledge is a sucker and *would* keep prices artificially high. But that's okay, because those who participate in knowledge can then receive subsidy from the suckers. The dealer, having just made a killing, can afford to give some slack to the guy who knows it. There is a vast resource out there to be tapped with Harley and Colt and other "image" products.

P.S. I agree with you on products that are so far within my means as to not be worth the time and expense of negotiation, like eggs. And there are some people out there who can buy Harleys like I buy eggs, without batting an eye. But I am not one of them. $20,000.00 is a lot of dough to a guy like me.

 

Exactly right James Riley. I actually like the whole negotiation process and am always more than willing to walk out and go to another dealer if they don't meet what I am willing to pay. At the same time I don't like paying too much for anything that's why you negotiate, let the other person walk in without the knowledge and education and pay some stupid overinflated price.

Here is the invoice info, there Earl I saved you 20..

This is not the complete quote I received but it has the highlights from the reports you get for your money. Worth every penny in my opinion..


2010 FLSTFB Fat Boy Lo

List Price: $16299 BLACK
List Price: $16674 COLOR

Dealer Invoice: $13039 BLA
Dealer Invoice: $13339 COLOR
These are the base dealer costs before actual freight and assembly costs.

Freight Cost: $335 (48 states and Alaska

Add assembly cost and any options, dealer prep ect.

 

I'm sure someone will appreciate the info, but I already bought a bike, so it's of little use to me.

Since I already posted the numbers in another thread, I suppose there's no reason not to here.

The dealer:

2010 Fat Boy Lo in denim black ($16,674)
with security system (+$380)

$17,054.00
+$650.00 - delivery/prep
+$1106.50 (tax)
______________
$18,810.50 - List Price, OTD (out the door)




According to your numbers:

$13,339 - invoice
$650 - delivery/prep (to keep things even)
$380 - security (I don't know dealer cost)
$898 - tax
______________

$15,267 - Dealer Cost (estimate), OTD




I paid $16,500.00 - Cash, OTD

With that, I get 20% off all HD parts and apparel.
... and my wife and I got free t-shirts ($20?)


Dealer made $1233 on the deal, which I'm perfectly happy with,
I've already "saved" more than that on parts, apparel and free shipping.

 

Well, like everyone has been telling me as I shop around for the type of bike I want, if you are happy with it, that is all that matters. Your deal doesn't sound unreasonable. I've got no truck with profit. They've got overhead, idiots as employees, charge-backs, stupid customers, insurance, blah blah blah. I just like to go in with as much knowledge as is reasonably available, in advance, so when they start all that typical car salesman shuck and jive I am armed with a few facts. I've had dealers stick to MSRP as if corporate told them they had to, and I just went down the road if they wouldn't talk to me. (By the way, one of the worst is sucking wind and probably won't last. He's also got a real crappy rating with the BBB and several complaints lodged against him. Again, more knowledge). I'm also waiting till later in the fall when 2010 prices might be a little more elastic.

Anybody have a comment on timing for 2010 models? Now, or wait some more?

 

If you're not picky about a specific model/color you could wait 'til the 2012's come out and maybe get another $500-1000 off of a 2010.
Expect to spend time searching the country and possibly spending gas/airfare to go get it when you do find one (washing out any savings) you like.

One thing I found was, all the dealers I spoke to would rather lose a sale (and me as a regular customer) than get a 2010 from another dealer.
Basically, their attitude was, "Buy what we have in-stock or go elsewhere" which I did, to the tune of 140+ miles away.

I bought mine 2 weeks before the 2011's started showing up at dealers, so they wanted to reduce inventory more than just "make a sale and a happy customer"

 

good stuff....

 

I agree with James. You have to remember, dealers aren't in business to make you happy, it is their business to make you happy. They are in business to make money.
I'd hate to guess what the overhead at some of these fancy dealerships is. They have to sell enough parts, service and new bikes to cover this overhead each month.
I'm guessing '09 was a really rough year for the dealers. Because of the economy people just weren't buying "luxury" items like boats, cars and bikes.
This year is a little better, but not great.
Don't go too hard on the dealer. He needs to make a profit to stay in business. Without the dealers making profit, the motor company wouldn't be around too long. I'd hate to see Harley go south like Indian. ( I know they are in business now, but it won't last). Maybe I'm stretching here, but, last time Harley had real serious money problems they ended up manufacturing them with bowling ball logo's on them...(AMF). I don't want to see that happen again!

 

Just got my fender bib from Norms Custom....

 

I did some invoice comparisons like that. Once HD didn't want to budge I went to another dealer at the end of the month. Both salesman were friends and were competing for my business so I had them going back and forth, it was entertaining. Eventually one went down to $14,500 OTD.