pnging
#1
08-21-2009, 11:39 AM
Join Date: Jan 2009
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pnging
Howzit all from Honolulu,
Got a small issue with my 05 heritage,recently the bike started pinging while accelarating through te rev range.Havn't done too much to the bike....short shot v&h and a reusable green air cleaner.
Have installed new plugs and set to harley specs new sreamin eagle leads,had the bike at the dealer and on the computor,mechanic has tuned to harley peramiters and he assures me all sensors are good.Called him after getting the bike back and his stance on it is that there is nothing else I can do even if I install a v&h power commander it probably wouldn't help.
Anyone else got this problem?am I looking at a cam job here to reset the timing,has anyone used fuel additives to up the octane of the fuel.....any imput greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading.
Peter.
Got a small issue with my 05 heritage,recently the bike started pinging while accelarating through te rev range.Havn't done too much to the bike....short shot v&h and a reusable green air cleaner.
Have installed new plugs and set to harley specs new sreamin eagle leads,had the bike at the dealer and on the computor,mechanic has tuned to harley peramiters and he assures me all sensors are good.Called him after getting the bike back and his stance on it is that there is nothing else I can do even if I install a v&h power commander it probably wouldn't help.
Anyone else got this problem?am I looking at a cam job here to reset the timing,has anyone used fuel additives to up the octane of the fuel.....any imput greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading.
Peter.
#2
08-21-2009, 01:07 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
This is what helped my pinging problem as well as intermittent high idle when hot and intermittent stalling. Your's may be a different issue altogether.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...n-pinging.html
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...n-pinging.html
#3
08-21-2009, 01:09 PM
#4
08-21-2009, 02:28 PM
I struggled with a pinging problem recently only to find out it was the cowling over the headlight. Dang thing only rattled at certain RPMs. I was sure it was a ping.
Take a look at a recent post here in the softail section. I think Chaz got rid of a pinging problem using toluene. Read carefully because there was a certain mix involved.
I'm using an ignition module on my 03 where I can adjust the timing. Apparently, if it starts pinging, I can back off on the advance curve and initial timing a little. I would think that all gets adjusted during the tuning and I shouldn't have to worry about it again until I make more changes.
I once had a BMW (R1150GS) that ping'd like crazy. After many trips to BMW they finally got the regional manager to ride it. He had the ***** to say "It is a characteristic of the bike." Sold.
I don't like what your mech says. Harleys do not ping unless there is something wrong or what you are hearing is not a ping. Good luck and let us know how it all works out.
Look here: https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...most-done.html
Take a look at a recent post here in the softail section. I think Chaz got rid of a pinging problem using toluene. Read carefully because there was a certain mix involved.
I'm using an ignition module on my 03 where I can adjust the timing. Apparently, if it starts pinging, I can back off on the advance curve and initial timing a little. I would think that all gets adjusted during the tuning and I shouldn't have to worry about it again until I make more changes.
I once had a BMW (R1150GS) that ping'd like crazy. After many trips to BMW they finally got the regional manager to ride it. He had the ***** to say "It is a characteristic of the bike." Sold.
I don't like what your mech says. Harleys do not ping unless there is something wrong or what you are hearing is not a ping. Good luck and let us know how it all works out.
Look here: https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...most-done.html
Last edited by kkinderen; 08-21-2009 at 02:34 PM. Reason: added link
#5
08-21-2009, 02:44 PM
R.I.P. BROTHER
My 95" 10:25-1 comp, 211 cams, well worked heads, 2-1 rinehart Night Train starting pinging like 100's of wine glasses were being broken in the top end as soon as it started getting over 80 degrees here in Colorado.
It was so bad I really hated riding it during the day!
A fellow member told me to make a 5 gallon mix using 3.5 gallons of 91 Octane and 1.5 Gallons of Toluene. Tolunene is used as a paint thinning product. Its hot as heck. Hotter than Thinner. Toluene is 114 octane. Combining 30% with 91 Octane fuel cured my ping instantly!!
I now have a refueling staion in my Garage and if I go out on a ride that requires refueling?
I'm FVCKED!!
Try it. I'm on my 3rd tankfull with abosuletly no issues. Bike runs like a top and actually seems to pull a little higher into the RPM range with the higher octane mix.
I actually own a painting company and had 20 gallons down at my yard as my guys use the stuff to clean oil based paint out of our striping machines. My cost on the stuff is $8.89 cents a gallon and I buy it by the 5 Gallon jug. Sherwin Williams and Ace Hardware both sell the stuff. I use the Sherwin as it has a nice built in pour spout.
If your issue is truly a low octane high compression motor in the heat type of ping? This will fix you right up.
My Fueling station...Duh!!
It was so bad I really hated riding it during the day!
A fellow member told me to make a 5 gallon mix using 3.5 gallons of 91 Octane and 1.5 Gallons of Toluene. Tolunene is used as a paint thinning product. Its hot as heck. Hotter than Thinner. Toluene is 114 octane. Combining 30% with 91 Octane fuel cured my ping instantly!!
I now have a refueling staion in my Garage and if I go out on a ride that requires refueling?
I'm FVCKED!!
Try it. I'm on my 3rd tankfull with abosuletly no issues. Bike runs like a top and actually seems to pull a little higher into the RPM range with the higher octane mix.
I actually own a painting company and had 20 gallons down at my yard as my guys use the stuff to clean oil based paint out of our striping machines. My cost on the stuff is $8.89 cents a gallon and I buy it by the 5 Gallon jug. Sherwin Williams and Ace Hardware both sell the stuff. I use the Sherwin as it has a nice built in pour spout.
If your issue is truly a low octane high compression motor in the heat type of ping? This will fix you right up.
My Fueling station...Duh!!
#6
08-21-2009, 02:51 PM
R.I.P. BROTHER
Harleys do not ping unless there is something wrong or what you are hearing is not a ping.
Spoke with my Motor guy about this issue. Hot day. High compression.....They will and do ping. Low octane fuel is typically the culprit as my bike has been uber tuned and will not ping when its below 82 degrees.
Here is a good read on the evil Ping!:http://www.wildwestcycle.com/f_deto.html
Don't cheat yourself by buying cut-rate fuel. If your handbook calls for premium, use premium. If you have a built engine, and know the compression ratio, be conservative in your fuel choice. An 8 to 1 compression ration can get away with regular gas. 9 to 1 can get away with regular as long as all other factors, like temperature and load are OK, but it can be pushed into deto pretty easily. If you're running 9.5 or above you'd better be using high-test all the time, no bull, or be prepared to replace your pistons and other stuff on short, noisy, notice.
#7
08-21-2009, 02:55 PM
R.I.P. BROTHER
Heres the info I got from fellow member Big Joe. This guy was spot on. I actually owe him a cold beer or a steak for showing me the way to a ping free ride...Around town at least. Thanks again Joe!!
Heres Joes post:
Chaz, 3.5 gallons gas (93) to 1.5 gallons Toluene whenever I bump my nitrous jets ups. Gives around 99 octane. It's easier then getting to the nearest 100 octane Sunoco a million miles away. Here's the math to compute the octane. Toluene is 114 octane.
(Gallons_of_gas * Octane_of_gas) + (Gallons_of_toluene * 114)
____________________________________________
Total Gallons
So in your case if you were to run it and want 95.6 octane, it's 4 gallons of your 91 gas to 1 gallon of Toluene. The math would be...
4 gallons of gas times 91 = 364
then get the sum of...
1 gallon of Toluene times 114 = 114
add 114 to 364 and divide it by the total gallons (the gas and Toluene) which is 5 (gallons).
114+364=478 divided by 5 = 95.6 octane.
Mix in a gas can, not in the tank.
Toluene can be ordered from hardware stores. Many places no longer stock it because more people were probably sniffing it then thinning paint with it. Or maybe too many using for octane boost. Who knows... So many other products to use for thinning I guess, etc.
Now for the negative posters. Toluene is a by product of gas. Before you say it will ruin rubber o-rings, O2 sensors and this or that, bite your tongue. I said Toluene not Xylene. Xylene I would stay away from.
Heres Joes post:
Chaz, 3.5 gallons gas (93) to 1.5 gallons Toluene whenever I bump my nitrous jets ups. Gives around 99 octane. It's easier then getting to the nearest 100 octane Sunoco a million miles away. Here's the math to compute the octane. Toluene is 114 octane.
(Gallons_of_gas * Octane_of_gas) + (Gallons_of_toluene * 114)
____________________________________________
Total Gallons
So in your case if you were to run it and want 95.6 octane, it's 4 gallons of your 91 gas to 1 gallon of Toluene. The math would be...
4 gallons of gas times 91 = 364
then get the sum of...
1 gallon of Toluene times 114 = 114
add 114 to 364 and divide it by the total gallons (the gas and Toluene) which is 5 (gallons).
114+364=478 divided by 5 = 95.6 octane.
Mix in a gas can, not in the tank.
Toluene can be ordered from hardware stores. Many places no longer stock it because more people were probably sniffing it then thinning paint with it. Or maybe too many using for octane boost. Who knows... So many other products to use for thinning I guess, etc.
Now for the negative posters. Toluene is a by product of gas. Before you say it will ruin rubber o-rings, O2 sensors and this or that, bite your tongue. I said Toluene not Xylene. Xylene I would stay away from.
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#8
08-21-2009, 03:20 PM
R.I.P. BROTHER
Another excellent link:http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html
Toluene is a pure hydrocarbon (C7H8). i.e. it contains only hydrogen and carbon atoms. It belongs to a particular category of hydrocarbons called aromatic hydrocarbons. Complete combustion of toluene yields CO2 and H2O. This fact ensures that the entire emission control system such as the catalyst and oxygen sensor of your car is unaffected. There are no metallic compounds (lead, magnesium etc), no nitro compounds and no oxygen atoms in toluene. It is made up of exactly the same ingredients as ordinary gasoline. In fact it is one of the main ingredients of gasoline.
Toluene is a pure hydrocarbon (C7H8). i.e. it contains only hydrogen and carbon atoms. It belongs to a particular category of hydrocarbons called aromatic hydrocarbons. Complete combustion of toluene yields CO2 and H2O. This fact ensures that the entire emission control system such as the catalyst and oxygen sensor of your car is unaffected. There are no metallic compounds (lead, magnesium etc), no nitro compounds and no oxygen atoms in toluene. It is made up of exactly the same ingredients as ordinary gasoline. In fact it is one of the main ingredients of gasoline.
#9
08-22-2009, 12:03 AM
#10
08-22-2009, 07:21 AM
R.I.P. BROTHER
Mine pinged when it was stock under hard throttle. Stg 1 and PCIII tuning cured most of it. If I labor the motor in hot weather (pulling hills in 6th say below 70mph) it will ping a little. The temps were in the 100s when I noticed this. My oil temps were ~230 in these conditions.
You get the same crappy Ethanoled up 91 in AZ that we get in Colorado?