SE211 Bottom End Question
#1
08-12-2009, 05:26 PM
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SE211 Bottom End Question
I've searched and read alot of good information but haven't found an answer to my questions.
First off, I have an 07 Standard 96" with V&H Big Radius pipes, SE Heavy Breather, XIED, and stage 1 download. I'm not looking for a race bike or a massive HP increase. I like the sound of the 211 cam and wrenching on the bike. I was going to go with a 204 until I heard a 211 on youtube.
Every one says the cam doesn't make power below 3000 without headwork. My question is: does the cam make less power than the stock cams below 3000 or is it just not as good as some of the other cams? Like I said, I'm not looking for big power increases but I also don't want less power than the stock set-up.
My next question is about the heads. I know a compression bump is needed with these cams. Zanotti's has the SE MCR Performance heads for $660. Has anyone used these? Does anyone have an idea what it would cost to have the stock heads worked? The SE heads will up the compression to 10.3. Is this too much?
Thanks
First off, I have an 07 Standard 96" with V&H Big Radius pipes, SE Heavy Breather, XIED, and stage 1 download. I'm not looking for a race bike or a massive HP increase. I like the sound of the 211 cam and wrenching on the bike. I was going to go with a 204 until I heard a 211 on youtube.
Every one says the cam doesn't make power below 3000 without headwork. My question is: does the cam make less power than the stock cams below 3000 or is it just not as good as some of the other cams? Like I said, I'm not looking for big power increases but I also don't want less power than the stock set-up.
My next question is about the heads. I know a compression bump is needed with these cams. Zanotti's has the SE MCR Performance heads for $660. Has anyone used these? Does anyone have an idea what it would cost to have the stock heads worked? The SE heads will up the compression to 10.3. Is this too much?
Thanks
#2
08-12-2009, 06:01 PM
R.I.P. BROTHER
[QUOTE]
I think thats why I still have mine in my bike. By gawd they idle nice!!
They are right
On stock heads with no comp bump? May very well be worse than the stock cams.
211 is the wrong choice as a drop in cam. Dont do it. It wont work out and you will end up unhappy.
10:3-1 would be fine with the 211's. I run 10:25-1 with mine and they run pretty strong. I have some other issues to overcome...I'm at 6000 feet above sea-level in Colorado which saps about 10%-13% of the motors ability or output.
My bike does 93/108....And now it pings like a Biatch in this heat!!
I've searched and read alot of good information but haven't found an answer to my questions.
First off, I have an 07 Standard 96" with V&H Big Radius pipes, SE Heavy Breather, XIED, and stage 1 download. I'm not looking for a race bike or a massive HP increase. I like the sound of the 211 cam and wrenching on the bike. I was going to go with a 204 until I heard a 211 on youtube.
First off, I have an 07 Standard 96" with V&H Big Radius pipes, SE Heavy Breather, XIED, and stage 1 download. I'm not looking for a race bike or a massive HP increase. I like the sound of the 211 cam and wrenching on the bike. I was going to go with a 204 until I heard a 211 on youtube.
Every one says the cam doesn't make power below 3000 without headwork.
My question is: does the cam make less power than the stock cams below 3000 or is it just not as good as some of the other cams?
Like I said, I'm not looking for big power increases but I also don't want less power than the stock set-up.
My next question is about the heads. I know a compression bump is needed with these cams. Zanotti's has the SE MCR Performance heads for $660. Has anyone used these? Does anyone have an idea what it would cost to have the stock heads worked? The SE heads will up the compression to 10.3. Is this too much?
My bike does 93/108....And now it pings like a Biatch in this heat!!
#3
08-12-2009, 06:43 PM
R.I.P. BROTHER
OK...Here is a baseline run on my 95" 211 equipped Train Vs' the current set-up.
I bought this bike from a fellow HDF member here and the first thing we did was put the bike on the dyno to see how it was running.
This bike had a fresh 95" big bore kit, 211 cams, SE Heavy breather and a set of V&H short shots with no baffles.
The guy I bought it from was convinced it was fast....Ummmm it made a whopping asphalt shredding 53HP and 80TQ. My 50HP 220 pound KTM 300 2 stroke dirt bike would have beat its big *** silly in a 4 block drag race.
This is what happens when you put 211's in a stocker...Whole lotta nuthin!! Bike ran like it was wet sumping. It wasnt. Just a very poor idea to try and drop in 211's in a stock low compression motor especially at 6000 above sea-level!!
Had the heads done,swapped pipes, tuned the heck outta it as it had a generic Harley dealership download.
Went from 53HP to 91HP and gained 28 Lbs of useable TQ.
Thats a big gain. This simple budget build would dyno at 100/110 at sea-level easily.
I bought this bike from a fellow HDF member here and the first thing we did was put the bike on the dyno to see how it was running.
This bike had a fresh 95" big bore kit, 211 cams, SE Heavy breather and a set of V&H short shots with no baffles.
The guy I bought it from was convinced it was fast....Ummmm it made a whopping asphalt shredding 53HP and 80TQ. My 50HP 220 pound KTM 300 2 stroke dirt bike would have beat its big *** silly in a 4 block drag race.
This is what happens when you put 211's in a stocker...Whole lotta nuthin!! Bike ran like it was wet sumping. It wasnt. Just a very poor idea to try and drop in 211's in a stock low compression motor especially at 6000 above sea-level!!
Had the heads done,swapped pipes, tuned the heck outta it as it had a generic Harley dealership download.
Went from 53HP to 91HP and gained 28 Lbs of useable TQ.
Thats a big gain. This simple budget build would dyno at 100/110 at sea-level easily.
Last edited by Chazmanian; 08-12-2009 at 06:47 PM.
#4
08-12-2009, 07:11 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Sorry to hijack the thread, but Chaz, just got my Rinehart 2-1 installed today. Man, these pipes rock! I could really tell the difference over my BUB jughuggers.
The jury is still out on the sound. It's different enough that it will take someg getting used to. Was it that way for you too?
Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programming........
Shakey
The jury is still out on the sound. It's different enough that it will take someg getting used to. Was it that way for you too?
Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programming........
Shakey
#5
08-12-2009, 08:21 PM
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Running 211's also, with the right engine work they THUMP!!!! But they do like a bump in compression and they're a mid-range to upper end cam. So you'll need a bump in the compression dept. But the most of all, if you're not willing to twist the throttle, look elsewhere because this cam isn't for you.
#6
08-12-2009, 09:01 PM
I'm real happy with my 211's but like the others have said you need to do headwork and bump the CR.. The idle is badass for sure especially when you drop the RPM's to about 950... I've got a 103" and they really start pulling about 2700 and don't stop til you hit the rev limiter.. lol
You can get good headwork for anywhere from $450 to $1000.. Dewey's Heads has a pretty good reputation and he's pretty reasonable priced... I would definitely do your stock heads over buying SE heads..
You can get good headwork for anywhere from $450 to $1000.. Dewey's Heads has a pretty good reputation and he's pretty reasonable priced... I would definitely do your stock heads over buying SE heads..
#7
08-12-2009, 09:19 PM
Join Date: Mar 2008
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I Cut 1, Chazmanian, and Rail:
Do you regain the bottom end after the headwork? Is the bottom then more than stock?
Rail:
Thanks, I'll check Dewey's out.
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#8
08-12-2009, 10:05 PM
#9
08-12-2009, 10:49 PM
R.I.P. BROTHER
Oh I'm more than willing to twist the throttle. In the early to mid nintys, I rode and raced Ninjas until I crashed at over 120mph. I started riding Harley's in 98 because of the more laid back feel they have but I still like running through gears now and then (which is everytime I'm on the bike). I like the sound of the 211 and a performance increase is never bad. I just didn't want to lose any power.
I Cut 1, Chazmanian, and Rail:
Do you regain the bottom end after the headwork? Is the bottom then more than stock?
Rail:
Thanks, I'll check Dewey's out.
I Cut 1, Chazmanian, and Rail:
Do you regain the bottom end after the headwork? Is the bottom then more than stock?
Rail:
Thanks, I'll check Dewey's out.
Literally ran the bike on a dyno and started looking for a sumping issue or some other seriously horrible mechanical issue!
This could be due to the fact that at 6000 above sea-level we lose so much compression that running a 211 in a stocker up here is probably like running a 211 in a stocker at sea level with a stack of head gaskets installed dropping the compression to say 8:2-1 or something crazy low like that.
I like what the 2-1 pipe did for the midrange with this cam but I'm still having high RPM issues as my build goes flat at 4800 RPM and simply stops pulling. Once again altitude is an issue and I will probably swap my cams out over the winter for a true high lift andrews or woods grind.
Just to put the 211 on a motor with a CR bump and some honest heads? My neighbor has a Kawasaki mean streak. From what I gather the only Harley off the showroom that is faster than a Meanie is a Vee-Rawd.
I'll confess to Street/Backroad racing now. Me and my neighbor have lined up our bikes several times. His Meanie has a 2-1 pipe and an AC.
I pull him by 4-5 lenghts outta the hole everytime and hold him at 3-4 bikes until we run out of backroad.
I smoke him in roll on races every single time. There is no acceleration scenario where his Mean Streak can hang with my Train.....My bike out pulls his everytime.
Sadly our other Neighbor has an M109R. I cleverly avoid any mention of backroad power contests with him....For now.
Last edited by Chazmanian; 08-12-2009 at 10:55 PM.
