Engine Upgrade vs New Bike?
#11
08-02-2009, 06:32 PM
Tourer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Paris, TN
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#12
08-02-2009, 07:57 PM
I've got a '05 FLSTN, purchased last year from a guy who literally spent more time washing/waxing than riding. I've put ~10K miles on the bike (odometer reads ~13,000, so it's virtually new) and must say it's one of my all-time favorite rides -- but there are issues. The engine is stock 88", carb'ed, and runs/sounds great, but the power is just not enough. This was really rubbed in recently when I spent 3 days riding in the Smokies! I could almost sense the bike breathing a sigh of relief when we got back to the (flat) Lousiana delta.
So, here's my question:
I'm considering either building up the engine, or just buying a new bike. The engine work would be done by either the local dealer or a well-regarded indy (haven't got as far as price quotes yet).
Anybody done a similar upgrade and willing to report results?
If I buy new, it'll probably be an '09 or '10 FLSTN, and I will first try to sell the '05 before falling back to trade-in.
So, here's my question:
I'm considering either building up the engine, or just buying a new bike. The engine work would be done by either the local dealer or a well-regarded indy (haven't got as far as price quotes yet).
Anybody done a similar upgrade and willing to report results?
If I buy new, it'll probably be an '09 or '10 FLSTN, and I will first try to sell the '05 before falling back to trade-in.
You have a TC88 which uses the original 4" crank(which the twin cam engine was designed around). So if I were you I would do 2 things.
A. This actually is the most important thing to do. REGEAR THE BIKE! Your running a lethargic "EPA" 3.15 primary gear ratio. The first thing you need to do(and you can do it for CHEAP MONEY!)is to regear the primary to either 3.37 or 3.48. This will give you alot of natural low end torque you probably feel that your missing.
B. Depending on your budget, you should either do a BOLT ON 95"/97"(97" BEING PREFERRED, ask me why if your interested)with some mild headwork and a good low torque cruising cam, or if your budget allows for even more power, bore the case out and go with either a 107" or 114" motor setup.
I am doing a 107" buildup for a friend's FL right now, using the 3.37 gear ratio, axtell cylinders, and a custom ground camshaft to my specifications. His motor will give him dyno numbers exceeding 120/120 and is expected to have an engine that will last over 100k miles.
#13
08-02-2009, 08:19 PM
can you guarantee that motor to last over 100,000 miles.....That sounds like a whole lot of shoveling coming from your end.
so lets get this streight you are doing the build that is going to produce over 120hp/tq and spin 400 rpm more at cruising speeds which means that it will wear out the rings faster because of more rpm and because of spinning faster at cruising speeds it will also put more wear and tear on the drive line and valves and seats.
but you will still guarantee it to last for 100K.
a harley making over 120hp/tq is not a stock machine. espeacially a bagger loaded down doing touring duty.
the wear and tear on that motor is tremendous.
come on whats the name of your shop.
so lets get this streight you are doing the build that is going to produce over 120hp/tq and spin 400 rpm more at cruising speeds which means that it will wear out the rings faster because of more rpm and because of spinning faster at cruising speeds it will also put more wear and tear on the drive line and valves and seats.
but you will still guarantee it to last for 100K.
a harley making over 120hp/tq is not a stock machine. espeacially a bagger loaded down doing touring duty.
the wear and tear on that motor is tremendous.
come on whats the name of your shop.
#15
08-02-2009, 10:43 PM
$3000 vs $20,000,definitely a no brainer for me, have the engine work done and save your $$$. I'm probably going to do the 95" BB kit installed this winter along with some head work, and possibly new exhaust. Since your bike is carburated, you should consider installing a 42 or even a 54 mm carburetor. Also, changing from the stock chain drive to gear driven cams will yield you a even more horses, depending on which cam you (or your mechanic) selects. Good luck whatever you decide to do.
#16
08-02-2009, 10:45 PM
R.I.P. BROTHER
a harley
making over 120hp/tq is not a stock machine. espeacially a bagger loaded down doing touring duty.
the wear and tear on that motor is tremendous.
come on whats the name of your shop.
making over 120hp/tq is not a stock machine. espeacially a bagger loaded down doing touring duty. the wear and tear on that motor is tremendous.
come on whats the name of your shop.
#17
08-02-2009, 10:48 PM
I agree with the rest of the posters. If you like your '05, keep and beef up the engine by someone reputable who will give you a warranty. You won't be sorry. I plan on taking my '06 88" to a 95" later this year or early next winter; a place by where I live called Cyclerama (www.cyclerama.com) is telling me they can give me 100HP 100TQ with their 95 kit and still keep the bike reliable.
Only thing you may want to think about it the tranny..the new bikes come with 6 gears versus your "05, which only have 5 gears. Not sure how important that is to you...then again, you always have the option of upgrading to a sweet Baker or SE tranny, which is far superior than what comes on the stock bikes. Good luck.
Only thing you may want to think about it the tranny..the new bikes come with 6 gears versus your "05, which only have 5 gears. Not sure how important that is to you...then again, you always have the option of upgrading to a sweet Baker or SE tranny, which is far superior than what comes on the stock bikes. Good luck.
#18
08-02-2009, 10:58 PM
can you guarantee that motor to last over 100,000 miles.....That sounds like a whole lot of shoveling coming from your end.
so lets get this streight you are doing the build that is going to produce over 120hp/tq and spin 400 rpm more at cruising speeds which means that it will wear out the rings faster because of more rpm and because of spinning faster at cruising speeds it will also put more wear and tear on the drive line and valves and seats.
but you will still guarantee it to last for 100K.
a harley making over 120hp/tq is not a stock machine. espeacially a bagger loaded down doing touring duty.
the wear and tear on that motor is tremendous.
come on whats the name of your shop.
so lets get this streight you are doing the build that is going to produce over 120hp/tq and spin 400 rpm more at cruising speeds which means that it will wear out the rings faster because of more rpm and because of spinning faster at cruising speeds it will also put more wear and tear on the drive line and valves and seats.
but you will still guarantee it to last for 100K.
a harley making over 120hp/tq is not a stock machine. espeacially a bagger loaded down doing touring duty.
the wear and tear on that motor is tremendous.
come on whats the name of your shop.
A. The engine may sping at slightly higher rpm's, but the engine itself will be doing less work due to the higher gearing(which means the engine has more natural leverage)and there will be less chance of lugging the engine at all rpms. He also has a Screamin Eagle 6 speed, so he has a true OD cruising gear as well which will keep rpm's modest at normal cruising speeds. Rings are more prone to wearing out due to sideloading, detonation from a poor tune and general combustion chamber overheating than they are from a few hundred extra rpms.
Think about it, the piston speed is still on par or LESS than a comparable bike with a stroker crank.
And there is far less sideloading. What crank do you run? B. The engine itself will now be oversquare. A larger bore to stroke ratio. Oversquare engines have inherantly less vibration. Less vibration equals less wear and tear. The 107" is a nice reliable build and there is little material taken off the case when going to a 4.125" jug. He also had the timken bearing conversion done to the left side engine case, and had the right side bearing plate retained.
C. The engines crank is being trued and rebalanced with the new piston/ring/pin combo which will also reduce vibrations.
D. The camshaft is relatively mild and will be easy on the top end due to the modest .580 lift. Its a low overlap design with modest duration.
E. Don't need a shop,but I am a mechanic by trade and have been for 15 plus years. I do what I do with Harley's as a fun hobby, but I know the twin cam engine quite well, and I know how to gain good performance out of it, without sacrificing durability.
Last edited by GunmetalBlueNT; 08-02-2009 at 11:01 PM.
#19
08-02-2009, 11:05 PM
I agree with the rest of the posters. If you like your '05, keep and beef up the engine by someone reputable who will give you a warranty. You won't be sorry. I plan on taking my '06 88" to a 95" later this year or early next winter; a place by where I live called Cyclerama (www.cyclerama.com) is telling me they can give me 100HP 100TQ with their 95 kit and still keep the bike reliable.
Only thing you may want to think about it the tranny..the new bikes come with 6 gears versus your "05, which only have 5 gears. Not sure how important that is to you...then again, you always have the option of upgrading to a sweet Baker or SE tranny, which is far superior than what comes on the stock bikes. Good luck.
Only thing you may want to think about it the tranny..the new bikes come with 6 gears versus your "05, which only have 5 gears. Not sure how important that is to you...then again, you always have the option of upgrading to a sweet Baker or SE tranny, which is far superior than what comes on the stock bikes. Good luck.
you"ll have NO 
REGRETS!!!