Need more oats!
#1
05-22-2009, 11:29 PM
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oakville, MO.
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Need more oats!
Hey all. So I'm lovin' my new Rocker! With all the help from people on this board, I've got it about where I want it visually. Now, as usually goes with me, I need more power! It doesn't have to be the drag king, but I want some big power. I'm thinking about a 103 or a 110 build, with some headwork and cams, and I was curious about opinions on it? Somewhere in the 100hp/110 tq range would be sweet! I have a Hypercharger filter, an EFI race tuner, and the V&H BR exh. right now, so the easy part is done. I want it to be reliable, and run on 93 in the heat of summer. What is the most cost effective way to get where I want to be?
Last edited by Mopardik; 05-22-2009 at 11:33 PM.
#2
05-23-2009, 12:08 AM
R.I.P. BROTHER
You need to do at least a stage 3 build. Do a 103 with head work and cams. A "Good" stage 3 build should get a you 1HP and 1.1 TQ depending on cam choice per Cubic inch. A "Better" build will yield higher numbers.
You need to find a motor builder with a good rep in your area. Dont waste your money on a dealership cookie cutter big bore. You will get way more for your money from a good solid Indy.
Make yourself a motor budget and go get er' done.... Probably gonna cost ya' 4 grand to get it where you want it.
I think I have almost 4 grand in mine making 93/108 on a 95" stage 3 build at 6000 feet above sealevel (Would do 100/115 at sealevel) and I'm happy...For now?
You need to find a motor builder with a good rep in your area. Dont waste your money on a dealership cookie cutter big bore. You will get way more for your money from a good solid Indy.
Make yourself a motor budget and go get er' done.... Probably gonna cost ya' 4 grand to get it where you want it.
I think I have almost 4 grand in mine making 93/108 on a 95" stage 3 build at 6000 feet above sealevel (Would do 100/115 at sealevel) and I'm happy...For now?
Last edited by Chazmanian; 05-23-2009 at 12:11 AM.
#3
05-23-2009, 12:16 AM
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#4
05-23-2009, 12:56 AM
R.I.P. BROTHER
Find a good local indy motor guru first. Find the guy you want to go with. Ask what cams he has been having good luck with. Lots of these Indys if not most are very opinionated when it comes to cams. They literally name their builds after the cam...
So Joe Schmoe the local Hotshot does Andrews 37 builds. He is good at them and knows just what he needs to do with the heads to make good numbers on the dyno as after dropping 4 grand lets face it...You want to see good numbers. Butt dynos are great until you have to write that check or swipe the card for 4 large...At that point you want numbers.
Some of these guys are so Myopic in the builds that they do if you walk in the shop with a set X-Brand cams in a box and they are doing all their motors with Y-Brand? What you will get is a "Those arent gonna work that good"..."I can get you better numbers with blah blah" and so forth. To the point even where that Indy will do your build and if it dosent make good numbers and you arent happy?
Its all your fault for bringing those crappy X-Brand cams and he told you so when you brought em!
Thats how those guys think. Call around and get some info first. Talk to the motor guys...See where they heads are at, what they are doing and whats working out well on the builds they are doing. Dont just go buy a set of cams and expect to walk into a good motor builders shop and tell him to install those and make you good numbers. That will start you off on the wrong footing and make for a confrontational experience. If the guy is good. A Chithead will let you hand him a Dawgturd and tell you its gonna work just fine. A good guy is gonna react differently.
Not trying to say that Woods, Andrews, HQ arent all making good stuff. Its the Ego and skill of the builder and what grind he can make work thats gonna drive your build. Literally!
So Joe Schmoe the local Hotshot does Andrews 37 builds. He is good at them and knows just what he needs to do with the heads to make good numbers on the dyno as after dropping 4 grand lets face it...You want to see good numbers. Butt dynos are great until you have to write that check or swipe the card for 4 large...At that point you want numbers.
Some of these guys are so Myopic in the builds that they do if you walk in the shop with a set X-Brand cams in a box and they are doing all their motors with Y-Brand? What you will get is a "Those arent gonna work that good"..."I can get you better numbers with blah blah" and so forth. To the point even where that Indy will do your build and if it dosent make good numbers and you arent happy?
Its all your fault for bringing those crappy X-Brand cams and he told you so when you brought em!
Thats how those guys think. Call around and get some info first. Talk to the motor guys...See where they heads are at, what they are doing and whats working out well on the builds they are doing. Dont just go buy a set of cams and expect to walk into a good motor builders shop and tell him to install those and make you good numbers. That will start you off on the wrong footing and make for a confrontational experience. If the guy is good. A Chithead will let you hand him a Dawgturd and tell you its gonna work just fine. A good guy is gonna react differently.
Not trying to say that Woods, Andrews, HQ arent all making good stuff. Its the Ego and skill of the builder and what grind he can make work thats gonna drive your build. Literally!
Last edited by Chazmanian; 05-23-2009 at 01:00 AM.
#5
05-23-2009, 09:33 AM
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Thanks for the info, guys. I checked out a few of those sites, and there is some good stuff out there to be sure. I am looking hard at the HQ 113". It looks pretty stout, and will make more power than what I am asking. I do need to do some research on local guys and what they are doing, but don't really know where to start. I don't mind throwing some (more) $ at this thing, if it's done right. I rarely get rid of anything, so resale isn't much of an issue for me. I was wondering though, at what point the rest of the drivetrain (clutch, trans, etc.) will become a weak link? Any ideas? Thanks again for the help.
#6
05-23-2009, 10:20 AM
I'd keep it simple but that's me and I would tell my builder what he's going to put together rather than the other way around but I also did a lot of research into my parts selection first too.
If you keep your build to 107ci then that means no case boring which translates to less labor and time down and saves money while still having a potential beast. You won't go wrong with Woods or HQ for parts...but it's the combo that works. Listen to either one of those guys. Woods cams lean a bit towards the aggressive side, while HQ is a touch more balanced, just my opinion.
Read up on combos....there are a lot of them that will make good power and don't get lost in overanalyzing the combo. It's easy to get lost in analyzing cam intake valve opening points and lobe centers....I'd just call either Woods and HQ, tell them how much you have to spend and let them tell you from there. They do this for a living and have a great reputation. Steve at GMR is awesome too.
My bike will easily run on pump gas and is quite streetable. I haven't dyno'd my bike since it was sorted out but I am reasonably confident it would come in somewhere in the neighborhood of 120/120. Whatever the number.....when I come up into the cam midway through 2nd gear it puckers my *** and I leave knee indentions in the tank from squeezing so that works. I can only imagine what something like a 124 or something ultra sick like that must feel like. I need to find someone that will let me ride theirs....or on second thought I better not, otherwise the money pit starts up again.
If you keep your build to 107ci then that means no case boring which translates to less labor and time down and saves money while still having a potential beast. You won't go wrong with Woods or HQ for parts...but it's the combo that works. Listen to either one of those guys. Woods cams lean a bit towards the aggressive side, while HQ is a touch more balanced, just my opinion.
Read up on combos....there are a lot of them that will make good power and don't get lost in overanalyzing the combo. It's easy to get lost in analyzing cam intake valve opening points and lobe centers....I'd just call either Woods and HQ, tell them how much you have to spend and let them tell you from there. They do this for a living and have a great reputation. Steve at GMR is awesome too.
My bike will easily run on pump gas and is quite streetable. I haven't dyno'd my bike since it was sorted out but I am reasonably confident it would come in somewhere in the neighborhood of 120/120. Whatever the number.....when I come up into the cam midway through 2nd gear it puckers my *** and I leave knee indentions in the tank from squeezing so that works. I can only imagine what something like a 124 or something ultra sick like that must feel like. I need to find someone that will let me ride theirs....or on second thought I better not, otherwise the money pit starts up again.
Last edited by Hammer107; 05-23-2009 at 10:25 AM.
#7
05-25-2009, 11:44 AM
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Thanks to all for all the help here. Lots of good info to chew on. I'm not new to the making power thing, but am new to the HD end of it. I did contact Phil M, and he is also on board with lots of help. I think I'm well on my way to having a screamer. I am leaning towards either an HQ 107 or 113 right now. The 107 will easily surpass my goals, but the 113 would just be plain BAD! Now I just need to find the right install guy to bring it all together. Again, I've been inside many engines before, but not a Harley. I don't know if I want my first time to be with a custom stroker job. Any more ideas or opinions? Keep 'em coming.
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#8
05-25-2009, 12:34 PM
R.I.P. BROTHER
Meh? Our shops must be different up here. You waltz into a good indy shop that builds good motors (Emphasis on good) and start telling them how it needs to be done without consorting on what they do well first?
You just cant take a boxfull of parts that you figured up based on a few phone calls and some info gleaned on a Harley forum, walk into a reputable motor shop around here and tell them "This is what I want"..."Make it Rip".
You just come across as some internet educated ********. A good motor builder will show you his front door.
Thats always trouble in these parts!
You just cant take a boxfull of parts that you figured up based on a few phone calls and some info gleaned on a Harley forum, walk into a reputable motor shop around here and tell them "This is what I want"..."Make it Rip".
You just come across as some internet educated ********. A good motor builder will show you his front door.
Thats always trouble in these parts!
#9
05-25-2009, 02:01 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
#10
05-25-2009, 02:45 PM
Agreed! Phil helped me with my parts selection a couple of years ago, not directly but via his posts and HQ is cream of the crop. Great stuff.