((95)) CID guys what cams r u running??
#35
02-21-2009 | 10:09 PM
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,395
Likes: 142
From:
Well, that makes you da' man....at least in your world.
Here's something recent I dug up since in all of your years of extensive experience, you haven't seen or heard of a problem....
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engin...witts-end.html
Stick with the chains guys.
Here's something recent I dug up since in all of your years of extensive experience, you haven't seen or heard of a problem....
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engin...witts-end.html
Stick with the chains guys.
You seem to think your opinions, based on posts on a forum, where you don't have access to all the facts about which you read, trump years of hands on experience. If that's the case I agree with you on one thing, "my world" and yours are quite different. Actually I feel stupid even responding to such an outlandish claim!
#37
02-23-2009 | 05:07 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,035
Likes: 5
From: near Buffalo, NY
You are quick with an insult, but don't respond to the fact that gear drives have been the norm for Harleys for at least 70 years and the chain drive was a compromise made to meet EPA standards. It's not an "upgrade." One post here showing a guy with a very unusual problem hardly starts a trend. The gear drive conversion in twin cams requires proper set up of the pinion gear lash. I believe it's .001"-0015" gear lash. I don't have the spec in front of me. I've done a few conversions and never had a come back. S&S/Andrews makes optional pinion gears to allow correct lash. Too tight on the pinion driving the cams might result in catostrphic damage. When the engine heats up things expand, and the too tight gears may well break. Pinion shaft runout is also critical. My "02 Fat Boy has 46,000miles with Dave Mackie .590G cams, and wonder of wonder it hasn't blown up yet. I know a dozen or more guys who have at least this many miles of trouble free gear driven miles. It's a very well known fact that the cam drive system in the early twin cams failed in an unacceptable percentage of motors and caused extensive damage to the motors that they were in.
You seem to think your opinions, based on posts on a forum, where you don't have access to all the facts about which you read, trump years of hands on experience. If that's the case I agree with you on one thing, "my world" and yours are quite different. Actually I feel stupid even responding to such an outlandish claim!
You seem to think your opinions, based on posts on a forum, where you don't have access to all the facts about which you read, trump years of hands on experience. If that's the case I agree with you on one thing, "my world" and yours are quite different. Actually I feel stupid even responding to such an outlandish claim!
Northside, maybe you have had your fingers in an engine for years, but unless your mind is open and always considering other facts, opinions, and are willing to learn new things as the world changes, you will always be what you are, a closed minded, so called "expert" that refuses to learn a thing because you fail to understand that things may change. I fear people like you, Not because you will cause me a problem, I see people like you everyday, but because you will suck someone else into believing in you and you may cost them...
Maybe you haven't seen a problem. Maybe you actually believe the EPA/chains angle, I don't know. But believe it or not, there are smarter people out there in the world than you or me that have seen a problem. Hard to believe, I know.....
I am no expert because I believe there is so much more to learn everyday of my life, and I am NOT a closing my mind to anything.
A problem has existed with the cranks of the TC engine.
We could go on debating this like children, but I'll let you keep the upper hand here because you say you know it all. Fine.
For others looking to go with a gear drive, do a little research on this. Take a look at Darkhorse Machine for the cure. Call them and ask what it is they see in the TC crank. I am sure gears have worked perfect for the greater percentages, but a problem with crank run out is rearing it's head with a number of gear applications and causing internal damage. The bigger the build, the more risk. The new roller chain application isn't effected by this problem, and has been a proven and widely accepted upgrade from the old Morris chain and spring tensioners.. As I said above, even Andrews has relented.
I'm simply trying to point this out to others. Attacking me will not change the facts, and I have a problem with your "expert", closed minded viewpoint of this subject.. Read a little more please.......
It's your ride and your choice.
Last edited by George C; 02-23-2009 at 10:18 AM.
#38
02-23-2009 | 06:26 AM
R.I.P. BROTHER
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 4
From: Colorado Springs
211 cams on a 95" with stock pistons milled & ported heads, hand matched rings adjustable P-Rods, SE heavy breather and a set of Vance and hines big shot staggereds 93/104. Blue line shows same bike with bunk small 1 3/4 unstepped pipes.
Same bike with a set of standard big shots (1 3/4 pipes no stepped up outlet or power chamber) chart shows pre-tuned run and after tuned. 63/93 was the best the bike would do on the big shot standard pipes.
Pipes are important as well evidently. My bike wouldnt even run through the standard big shot unless the baffles were removed:
Pre-tuned dyno runs showing:
Red as big shot standards with no baffles 85/87
Green is Big Shot satndards with baffles 59/89
Blue Big shots staggered with baffles 88/100
I think I like the 211's on a bike like the night train. I can rev it our pretty good and its strong up high. Not much off the line torque unless you get the revs up a bit but all in all they work for now. Didnt even try and dyno the bike without baffles in the big shot staggereds. Made 93/104 after being tuned. Would have certainly done better on a pro-pipe or D&D but vanity took a front seat to function in my case.
Same bike with a set of standard big shots (1 3/4 pipes no stepped up outlet or power chamber) chart shows pre-tuned run and after tuned. 63/93 was the best the bike would do on the big shot standard pipes.
Pipes are important as well evidently. My bike wouldnt even run through the standard big shot unless the baffles were removed:
Pre-tuned dyno runs showing:
Red as big shot standards with no baffles 85/87
Green is Big Shot satndards with baffles 59/89
Blue Big shots staggered with baffles 88/100
I think I like the 211's on a bike like the night train. I can rev it our pretty good and its strong up high. Not much off the line torque unless you get the revs up a bit but all in all they work for now. Didnt even try and dyno the bike without baffles in the big shot staggereds. Made 93/104 after being tuned. Would have certainly done better on a pro-pipe or D&D but vanity took a front seat to function in my case.
Last edited by Chazmanian; 02-23-2009 at 06:34 AM.
#39
02-23-2009 | 08:29 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,035
Likes: 5
From: near Buffalo, NY
Personally, I'm not a fan of the 211 cam. They kill the engine dead where a Harley's powerband is famous.The V-twin shouldn't suffer at the low end for the sake of the top, so to each his own.
When you speak of your combo, any different cam will react differently to the exhaust system. My bike falls flat on it's face when I remove the baffles. I've played with Thundermonsters with my tune, and no matter where I position them, the bike falls flat.
The overlap numbers are what really changes things with what can be expected from each pipe. Your cams are meant to deliver power at the top, so straight drag pipes will help that. But, the reversion from that set up is what's killing what's left of your bottom end.
When you speak of your combo, any different cam will react differently to the exhaust system. My bike falls flat on it's face when I remove the baffles. I've played with Thundermonsters with my tune, and no matter where I position them, the bike falls flat.
The overlap numbers are what really changes things with what can be expected from each pipe. Your cams are meant to deliver power at the top, so straight drag pipes will help that. But, the reversion from that set up is what's killing what's left of your bottom end.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
