Hello riders, new guy to the forum here. I recently bought a 2013 sportster 48 with the stage 4 kit installed from a dealer. The bike is stupid quick but I am having some issues. The bike idles great and above 2k rpm it runs super strong but at take off with to much throttle the bike bogs down and almost dies. Also at cruising at a lower rpm and hammer the throttle the bike does the same. My dealer recently put around 5-7 hours of tuning and came up with the idea of because my bike is on cable throttle that the computer can't put enough fuel quickly to match the 58mm throttle body's intake that fast. Basically told me that either slip the clutch or keep the rpm's up enough it doesn't have the issue. They said harley told them the are not aware of the issue and that there isn't much you can do. the dealer put larger injectors in and told me to ride the bike and see if it helped. So far it din't and I almost think its worse. Any one have any ideas of issues like this?
I did not see too much BS in the idea/ solutions presented.
Off idle acceleration...yes add more rpm. So, slip the clutch
Low speed cruising acceleration...too much gas received (injectors or TB size) or great rear wheel traction. So add more rpm.
Else you already have a lot of time/ money on a dyno. We need to go to another shop. Sometimes these modification are not "plug and play". Could be the TB size, could be the FI fuel tables, could be the clutch engagement. If you post the dyno sheet w/ air fuel our membership may be able to offer some other aspects.
None the less that's my food for thought...good luck.
OK, Thanks kenny94945, No dyno sheet available yet. The bike just has the harley stage 4 tune in it. I was told it only has around 500 miles on the build so they want me to wait until around 1000-1500 miles on the build to put in the dyno and install a custom tune. Is this normal you think? I will say it had vance and hines grenades on it and I installed a thunderheader and for some reason it seems like it is worse. Could be in my head or because I didn't ride it a bunch before the exhaust change.
A. throttle the bike bogs down and almost dies. Also at cruising at a lower rpm and hammer the throttle the bike does the same. My dealer recently put around 5-7 hours of tuning and came up with the idea of because my bike is on cable throttle that the computer can't put enough fuel quickly to match the 58mm throttle body's intake that fast.
B. the dealer put larger injectors in and told me to ride the bike and see if it helped. So far it didn't and I almost think its worse. Any one have any ideas of issues like this?
Originally Posted by Kenny94945
I did not see too much BS in the idea/ solutions presented. C. Could be the TB size, could be the FI fuel tables, could be the clutch engagement.
Originally Posted by Sporty25
D. The bike just has the harley stage 4 tune in it. E. I will say it had vance and hines grenades on it and I installed a thunderheader and for some reason it seems like it is worse. Could be in my head or because I didn't ride it a bunch before the exhaust change.
A. it's finicky down low. that will *almost* go away when you get it dyno tuned. i still get it sometimes when the bike hasn't warmed up (cold). the kit wants to be revved higher, 3k+. i'm not sure how long you've had it but, it takes a while to get used to.
B. i hear you but, can't agree here. i was running the kit with stock TB and stock injectors an it ran fine but, would get squirrely like it was out of breath in the higher rpms. larger injectors and the 58mm tb helped with smoother delivery of power throughout the range and massively changed the top end (5.5-7k prm) feel, on mine anyway. the difference doesn't show on the dyno sheet but, you can totally feel it. i am running the se 575 cams not the 585's that comes in the kits though. the 575's are more aggressive. i opted to go with them over the 585s.
C. not tb size. it actually improved things. mapping and clutch maybe
D. could be a factor. the stage 4 street tune was meant for hd slip-ons. you said they spent time trying to get it right and probably did. the race tune is more aggressive and recommended race/competition exhaust with optional 4.3g/s injectors.
E. Was it tuned after you installed the thunder header? if not, it's not in your head. grenades are a bitch to tune and if you just stuck the TH on there and didn't adjust the mapping, the bike will be still running the insane adjustments for the grenades when the TH is a better pipe and doesn't need all those wacky adjustments, causing problems. seems like they would have adjusted all this after injectors or was that before the pipe? the thunder header should have been a kick in the pants. but it needs to be tuned.
do you have a tuner yet? if not, please fight the urge to buy a v&h fuel pack. get a dynojet power vision. you can do some light auto tune runs to help with the break in period you said you are following and when you go for a dyno tune, if the dealer or tuner uses power vision or dyon jet tuning good, you will already have a license (with your power vision) that they can use. saves you 200 bucks.
i would say just take time to just get a feel for the bike in it's current state. cold running and hot running. find a nice, unpatrolled, stretch of road and look for trouble spots in the rpm range while getting a feel for the throttle and where the bike wants the heavy hand. mine wants the more throttle down low. after the dyno w/ the the new pipe, you'll probably see and feel the differences. the kit screams but, up high.
Thank you cvaria! Just got it back yesterday and they adjusted it with the new injectors and the thnderheader on it. Tech told me that all the ideas he had and the adjustments they made during the tuning actually made it worse so they went back to the base stage 4 tune with the bigger injectors. He actually told me that harley told him the injectors are not needed but he wanted to try it. I know maybe this is the way it goes with these kits, but I paid big money for the bike and was kind of expecting more perfection with the harley kit vs the hammer perf or piecing online parts together. Is the wait to dyno for a certain number of mileage idea bs or recommended? As the tech says I can 'learn' to ride the bike, just thought I would find out if this was a known issue or the dealer giving me the shaft. One more thing does your 58mm tb stick sometimes? Especially if you dump the throttle fast then reapply? Sometimes at stop lights I have to give it a flick to make sure it is ok. Dealer told me all the 58mm's do this. Thanks
The only tuner I have is the harley tuner I have they gave me that comes with the kit, and I take it to them when they are messing with it. I was told it was the stage 4 race kit that is no longer available because of the big lawsuit epa thing with harley.
Last edited by ChickinOnaChain; 09-29-2017 at 12:15 PM.
I don't think HD offered a stage 4 kit for the 2007-2013 Sportsters.
I didn't even see one in the 2013 Screamin Eagle Race parts catalog.
I didn't see a HD Pro Super Tuner Stage 4 map for 2013 Sportster.
HD has one for the 2014+ Sportsters but it is a different software level than the 2007-2013 years.
Thank you cvaria! Just got it back yesterday and they adjusted it with the new injectors and the thnderheader on it. Tech told me that all the ideas he had and the adjustments they made during the tuning actually made it worse so they went back to the base stage 4 tune with the bigger injectors. He actually told me that harley told him the injectors are not needed but he wanted to try it. I know maybe this is the way it goes with these kits, but I paid big money for the bike and was kind of expecting more perfection with the harley kit vs the hammer perf or piecing online parts together. Is the wait to dyno for a certain number of mileage idea bs or recommended? As the tech says I can 'learn' to ride the bike, just thought I would find out if this was a known issue or the dealer giving me the shaft. One more thing does your 58mm tb stick sometimes? Especially if you dump the throttle fast then reapply? Sometimes at stop lights I have to give it a flick to make sure it is ok. Dealer told me all the 58mm's do this. Thanks
yeah, taking time to learn it will help. dealer isn't pulling your leg.
the sticking, no my throttle response with the 58mm is crisp and as exact as i could expect it to be, bananas honestly. my bike has seen the dyno a few times. there was some weirdness at first but, that was before the 58mm and injectors. i auto tuned it away right after putting the bike back together. https://www.hdforums.com/forum/sport...orking-77.html
Originally Posted by Sporty25
The only tuner I have is the harley tuner I have they gave me that comes with the kit, and I take it to them when they are messing with it. I was told it was the stage 4 race kit that is no longer available because of the big lawsuit epa thing with harley.
I guess you have the street tuner. that ok but, not as robust as an aftermarket tuner. once it goes for a dyno. the tech tuning will get a clean base tune from dynojet, TTS, or whoever and use that to tune the bike. you will get better results than the cookie cutter hd stage 4 tune currently giving you headaches.
I don't think HD offered a stage 4 kit for the 2007-2013 Sportsters.
I didn't even see one in the 2013 Screamin Eagle Race parts catalog.
I didn't see a HD Pro Super Tuner Stage 4 map for 2013 Sportster.
HD has one for the 2014+ Sportsters but it is a different software level than the 2007-2013 years.
current 58mm stage 4 kits launched about 2-2.5 years ago race kit and most of the parts don't show on like, only in the catalogues.
the 2007-2013 race kit is still out there. not sure if SEPRT is still included with race kit. it does not need to be epa complinant
My sportster 48 is a 2013. I will check out the tuner box tonight for a harley part number. I was told that in 2014 Harley stopped making this kit and it was considered race use only at the time and din't have any kind of factory warranty from harley if this was installed. I believe it was the first year for the new 58mm intake in this kit a harley tech told me. The previous kits didn't have the 58mm intake in them. Not really 100% because it was already installed when I bought the bike. I can say it was installed by my local harley dealer because the service manager there is best friends with the guy I bought the bike from. I will definitely get a part number for the tuner I have. Thanks shanneba!
Wow thanks for the info cvaria! I noticed the kit didn't come with the 58 intake for my year. Wonder if they installed a used intake or I just received a junk intake from harley. The issue is the butterfly sticks and you can hear it squeeking/rubbing metal on metal when you open and close throttle. The tech said its as good as he could get it. Might get better with use. Might try a different dealer/shop for some advice down the road. Any recommendations for shops in central IL area?
Last edited by ChickinOnaChain; 09-29-2017 at 12:15 PM.
Wow thanks for the info cvaria! I noticed the kit didn't come with the 58 intake for my year. Wonder if they installed a used intake or I just received a junk intake from harley. The issue is the butterfly sticks and you can hear it squeeking/rubbing metal on metal when you open and close throttle. The tech said its as good as he could get it. Might get better with use. Might try a different dealer/shop for some advice down the road. Any recommendations for shops in central IL area?
take pictures of the the intake side of your bike and post them. there's no mistaking that monster. may just need to 1. oil/2. adjust/ or 3. replace your cables and clean the throttle body....
OR.. i guess i have a nasty surprise coming that you just gave me a heads up on, lol
09-27-2017, 07:58 AM
Sportster 48 stage 4 issues!!
