Stock Solenoid Starter Switch
#1
09-01-2008, 07:57 AM
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Stock Solenoid Starter Switch
Stock Solenoid Starter Switch
Well seems like my original Solenoid Starter Switch started to give me trouble, I started to hear click from it with no cranking approx 4 or 5 times the first time and only time this week, since I don’t have my stock starter any longer and run an All-***** starter it draws approx 230 AMPS I check it out myself, that is a hell of a load since stock is up to maybe 180, backed up by a Odyssey battery, that system loads a lot of pressure on it I guess, since I don’t have my kicker 4 speed, Baker 6 speed, man I am starting it get very paranoid about starting !
I am not ready into bump starting, it’s a PIA unless you on a pretty good grade, so I decided just to get another solenoid, after checking out the power end connection and battery all check out good, connections and ground.
I should have known better I ordered a ACCEL chrome ”solenoid” (made in the USA) from J&P, the little voice in the back of the head said check out NOS (New Old Stock unit) hell with it on the net paid it, yeah, it was priced in the catalog approx $48.00 in turns out it went up to $68 ! ok, ok when it came and I took out my original and took it apart I notice the damn thing was made pretty well back then, yeah taiwan stuff but made to spec. the cooper washer inside wasn’t too bad shape the spring little cup was half gone.
I wanted to take the ACCEL apart and check a few things like how thick that washer is inside and if it was copper as the original, can’t take it apart ! first thing I notice was in side where the plunger goes it doesn’t have a copper lining ? it’s steel ! I also notice they don’t want you to take it apart, since the size of the two small bolts are so close to housing of the top of the coil it’s impossible to get anything on it, close to the edges of the plastic top ? the 2 large nuts are different size ? why ?
Screw this I am going to see if the local dealer has an old one in stock, yeah they did have one, as soon as he came out with it, my head drop ! whats wrong I have it ! I said “white box” he smiled yeah ! well man it’s almost 30 years old ! so WTH dose that have to do with it ? it looked exactly like the ACCEL made in the USA one back home ! this one made in china, every detail even the size of those two large nuts and the two small mounting bolts (screws in the stock unit, made to be re-built) only one had clear washers and china made had black !
The same red paint mark across one of the posts (started to wonder about that made in the USA ?) and it only costs $47.00 ! that’s ok, later, so I went to yet an older HD dealer, I told the guy when you go back there give me the oldest looking box you have : - )
Same thing the only one they had, white box ! damn ! No thanks
So on the net to HD NOS parts, yeah they have both the original for $77.00 a the new part number for $47.00 I shot them an e-mail. http://www.nosparts.com/
So back goes the ACCEL to J&P for a refund well less $24 bucks for a All-Balla 4 ga battery cable, I heard from a guy at the independent shop said that how they had to do it (running two 4 ga cables) to a bike with about my set up, so I’ll try it, like I said, since I don’t have the kicker any longer, I count on that button to start !
This is really for anyone who has a little hotter starting system, call it lessons learn : - )
IMO the stock unit nothing is made after market to beat it !
Pic’s are ACCEL and Stock HD Solenoid front and rear views
later,
cj
Well seems like my original Solenoid Starter Switch started to give me trouble, I started to hear click from it with no cranking approx 4 or 5 times the first time and only time this week, since I don’t have my stock starter any longer and run an All-***** starter it draws approx 230 AMPS I check it out myself, that is a hell of a load since stock is up to maybe 180, backed up by a Odyssey battery, that system loads a lot of pressure on it I guess, since I don’t have my kicker 4 speed, Baker 6 speed, man I am starting it get very paranoid about starting !
I am not ready into bump starting, it’s a PIA unless you on a pretty good grade, so I decided just to get another solenoid, after checking out the power end connection and battery all check out good, connections and ground.
I should have known better I ordered a ACCEL chrome ”solenoid” (made in the USA) from J&P, the little voice in the back of the head said check out NOS (New Old Stock unit) hell with it on the net paid it, yeah, it was priced in the catalog approx $48.00 in turns out it went up to $68 ! ok, ok when it came and I took out my original and took it apart I notice the damn thing was made pretty well back then, yeah taiwan stuff but made to spec. the cooper washer inside wasn’t too bad shape the spring little cup was half gone.
I wanted to take the ACCEL apart and check a few things like how thick that washer is inside and if it was copper as the original, can’t take it apart ! first thing I notice was in side where the plunger goes it doesn’t have a copper lining ? it’s steel ! I also notice they don’t want you to take it apart, since the size of the two small bolts are so close to housing of the top of the coil it’s impossible to get anything on it, close to the edges of the plastic top ? the 2 large nuts are different size ? why ?
Screw this I am going to see if the local dealer has an old one in stock, yeah they did have one, as soon as he came out with it, my head drop ! whats wrong I have it ! I said “white box” he smiled yeah ! well man it’s almost 30 years old ! so WTH dose that have to do with it ? it looked exactly like the ACCEL made in the USA one back home ! this one made in china, every detail even the size of those two large nuts and the two small mounting bolts (screws in the stock unit, made to be re-built) only one had clear washers and china made had black !
The same red paint mark across one of the posts (started to wonder about that made in the USA ?) and it only costs $47.00 ! that’s ok, later, so I went to yet an older HD dealer, I told the guy when you go back there give me the oldest looking box you have : - )
Same thing the only one they had, white box ! damn ! No thanks
So on the net to HD NOS parts, yeah they have both the original for $77.00 a the new part number for $47.00 I shot them an e-mail. http://www.nosparts.com/
So back goes the ACCEL to J&P for a refund well less $24 bucks for a All-Balla 4 ga battery cable, I heard from a guy at the independent shop said that how they had to do it (running two 4 ga cables) to a bike with about my set up, so I’ll try it, like I said, since I don’t have the kicker any longer, I count on that button to start !
This is really for anyone who has a little hotter starting system, call it lessons learn : - )
IMO the stock unit nothing is made after market to beat it !
Pic’s are ACCEL and Stock HD Solenoid front and rear views
later,
cj
Last edited by cj_slowdown; 09-01-2008 at 08:03 AM. Reason: Trying to add 2nd pic
#3
09-01-2008, 11:34 AM
Hi cj_slowdown!
Hi Rodney!
Haven't heard from either of you two on here for a while.
cj_slowdown,
I am following your "adventure" with interest. I finally got my starter system to work but it still has a heck of a time getting past that first compression stroke (at least, 75% of the time). When I talked to All ***** about the problems I was having they sold me a solenoid that they recommended. It was made in Brazil and is almost, but not quite, a Fred Flintstone looking unit (not a fancy finished look to it) but it does the job...so far.
Where are you planning on using two #4 battery cables? I am using #4 cables but just one of each.
Are you going to get a rebuild kit for your original solenoid? It might be a good backup unit.
Rodney,
That switch of yours is from V Twin, right? Like I told you I had been knocking around the idea of building something like that at one time. If I ever do...I'm sure it would make Fred Flintstone proud!!
Later guys.
cj_slowdown,
Keep the info coming. I am very interested in the outcome of this problem.
Hi Rodney!
Haven't heard from either of you two on here for a while.
cj_slowdown,
I am following your "adventure" with interest. I finally got my starter system to work but it still has a heck of a time getting past that first compression stroke (at least, 75% of the time). When I talked to All ***** about the problems I was having they sold me a solenoid that they recommended. It was made in Brazil and is almost, but not quite, a Fred Flintstone looking unit (not a fancy finished look to it) but it does the job...so far.
Where are you planning on using two #4 battery cables? I am using #4 cables but just one of each.
Are you going to get a rebuild kit for your original solenoid? It might be a good backup unit.
Rodney,
That switch of yours is from V Twin, right? Like I told you I had been knocking around the idea of building something like that at one time. If I ever do...I'm sure it would make Fred Flintstone proud!!
Later guys.
cj_slowdown,
Keep the info coming. I am very interested in the outcome of this problem.
#4
09-01-2008, 01:00 PM
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solenoid
“megawatt”
“Hi cj_slowdown!
Hi Rodney!
Haven't heard from either of you two on here for a while.”
Well if Rodney was like me having trouble with this forum I can see why we stayed away ! but seems like they have a handle on it now !!! great job, so far !
“ I am following your "adventure" with interest. I finally got my starter system to work but it still has a heck of a time getting past that first compression stroke (at least, 75% of the time). When I talked to All ***** about the problems I was having they sold me a solenoid that they recommended. It was made in Brazil and is almost, but not quite, a Fred Flintstone looking unit (not a fancy finished look to it) but it does the job...so far.”
Great news ! last time I know you were having problems, man what compression on you running ??? 10:1 : - )
Glad to hear about this solenoid, do you remember looking into the back of it, did it have a copper lining around the entrance hole like the stock one in my post ?
“Where are you planning on using two #4 battery cables? I am using #4 cables but just one of each.”
I have a new one (cable) when the new motor was put in since I put in the All-***** starter, but later I was talking (like I said in the post) to this guy he said they had to run (two) 2 #4 GA cables from the battery to the solenoid or was it from the solenoid to the starter, oh crap ! I think it was to the solenoid ! anyway since I got a really well made #4 copper cable (clear casing) I am going to get another one from J&P since they owe me money from this ACCEL crap solenoid, I am taking a All-***** brand I do like “Terry cables” since I run one for the battery ground to frame, man it’s great, you could tie it in a bow ! it has so many thin strands of copper wires in it! as you know with a FX the ground stock cable is nothing to write home about, stiff as nails along with many being many years old now, I replace it approx 6 yrs ago, but Terry doesn’t make it in clear casing only black ! yeah they got to match : - ) then one I have on now is 15” lug hole to lug hole J&P sell it for $19 I am leaning to the 16” size to give me some clearance but that inch more is $6, copper is way up !!! screw it the money is already spent !
“Are you going to get a rebuild kit for your original solenoid? It might be a good backup unit.”
Your reading my mind ! but I am having trouble seeing if the re-build kits are as well made as the original, if you know of any good ones I am all ears !
“Rodney,
That switch of yours is from V Twin, right? Like I told you I had been knocking around the idea of building something like that at one time. If I ever do...I'm sure it would make Fred Flintstone proud!!Later guys.”
Wow when I click on the pic, I said to myself, WTF is that !! ??? Rodney that is cool looking is it dependable ?
“Keep the info coming. I am very interested in the outcome of this problem.”
No problem at all, we are all in this together, by all I mean shovelhead owners ! I could have took the easy way out in ’07, all the bucks I put in this ride ? I could have been on a trick-out RK and while riding that thing I would have been thinking of my shovelhead ! with reality spikes jumping into my head on things like “what map am I going to use”, when I change my AC and pipes !!! besides I would be looking like all the rest out there : - )) good guys, but they don’t know what they are missing : - ))))))))))))))))
later,
cj
“Hi cj_slowdown!
Hi Rodney!
Haven't heard from either of you two on here for a while.”
Well if Rodney was like me having trouble with this forum I can see why we stayed away ! but seems like they have a handle on it now !!! great job, so far !
“ I am following your "adventure" with interest. I finally got my starter system to work but it still has a heck of a time getting past that first compression stroke (at least, 75% of the time). When I talked to All ***** about the problems I was having they sold me a solenoid that they recommended. It was made in Brazil and is almost, but not quite, a Fred Flintstone looking unit (not a fancy finished look to it) but it does the job...so far.”
Great news ! last time I know you were having problems, man what compression on you running ??? 10:1 : - )
Glad to hear about this solenoid, do you remember looking into the back of it, did it have a copper lining around the entrance hole like the stock one in my post ?
“Where are you planning on using two #4 battery cables? I am using #4 cables but just one of each.”
I have a new one (cable) when the new motor was put in since I put in the All-***** starter, but later I was talking (like I said in the post) to this guy he said they had to run (two) 2 #4 GA cables from the battery to the solenoid or was it from the solenoid to the starter, oh crap ! I think it was to the solenoid ! anyway since I got a really well made #4 copper cable (clear casing) I am going to get another one from J&P since they owe me money from this ACCEL crap solenoid, I am taking a All-***** brand I do like “Terry cables” since I run one for the battery ground to frame, man it’s great, you could tie it in a bow ! it has so many thin strands of copper wires in it! as you know with a FX the ground stock cable is nothing to write home about, stiff as nails along with many being many years old now, I replace it approx 6 yrs ago, but Terry doesn’t make it in clear casing only black ! yeah they got to match : - ) then one I have on now is 15” lug hole to lug hole J&P sell it for $19 I am leaning to the 16” size to give me some clearance but that inch more is $6, copper is way up !!! screw it the money is already spent !
“Are you going to get a rebuild kit for your original solenoid? It might be a good backup unit.”
Your reading my mind ! but I am having trouble seeing if the re-build kits are as well made as the original, if you know of any good ones I am all ears !
“Rodney,
That switch of yours is from V Twin, right? Like I told you I had been knocking around the idea of building something like that at one time. If I ever do...I'm sure it would make Fred Flintstone proud!!Later guys.”
Wow when I click on the pic, I said to myself, WTF is that !! ??? Rodney that is cool looking is it dependable ?
“Keep the info coming. I am very interested in the outcome of this problem.”
No problem at all, we are all in this together, by all I mean shovelhead owners ! I could have took the easy way out in ’07, all the bucks I put in this ride ? I could have been on a trick-out RK and while riding that thing I would have been thinking of my shovelhead ! with reality spikes jumping into my head on things like “what map am I going to use”, when I change my AC and pipes !!! besides I would be looking like all the rest out there : - )) good guys, but they don’t know what they are missing : - ))))))))))))))))
later,
cj
#5
09-01-2008, 01:22 PM
cj_slowdown,
Yes, it is a 10:1 engine.
All I can remember is the rebuild kit I have is an Accel. Are you gonna make me go dig it out and take a picture of it? When I get out to the garage today I will look for it. I'd be happy to send you a pic of what's in the box.
When my engine is warm, the bike starts easier for some reason...of course, anytime it starts easier is fine with me.
I don't remember if this Brazilian solenoid from All ***** has that copper, or brass, liner in there or not, sorry. I don't wanna pull it off cuz its a pain to reseal it (I gotta use silicon sealer or that ATF in there leaks out).
Yes, it is a 10:1 engine.
All I can remember is the rebuild kit I have is an Accel. Are you gonna make me go dig it out and take a picture of it? When I get out to the garage today I will look for it. I'd be happy to send you a pic of what's in the box.
When my engine is warm, the bike starts easier for some reason...of course, anytime it starts easier is fine with me.
I don't remember if this Brazilian solenoid from All ***** has that copper, or brass, liner in there or not, sorry. I don't wanna pull it off cuz its a pain to reseal it (I gotta use silicon sealer or that ATF in there leaks out).
#6
09-01-2008, 02:40 PM
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Many years ago I replaced a stock solenoid on my old '78 FL with an Accel unit. It worked fine for quite a few years. Rebuilt it as needed with no problems. One thing I noticed with the rebuild kits is many of them had only copper contacts, with no silver plating on the copper. They don't last as long as the silver contacts. I was in the Navy for some of the time I had the bike and used to cut a deal with someone and get my contacts plated whenever I got a motor starter overhauled. Couple other tricks were to simply flip the movable contact over and use the other side, or use a stainless steel washer for the movable contact. Either way the stationary contacts needed dressing with sandpaper (never emory cloth!).
#7
09-01-2008, 03:14 PM
Hi pococj,
Good info. thanks. I'm surprised that silver plating wouldn't just burn away immediately at the contact points. Interesting...
cj_slowdown,
Here's the pics. I need to come up with a better "filing" system for my parts. It took a while to find this stuff.
As you can see, the Accel kit uses copper for the cable attachment bolts/internal contacts.
The movable contact washer is non-magnetic so I'm guessing that it is stainless...or MAYBE silver plated copper but I kinda doubt that. It doesn't say anything about the material it is made from in the instructions.
The next two photos are of the box the solenoid came in from All *****. That is the All ***** P/N on the box. I see their P/N sticker was placed over the Brazilian P/N sticker.
The last photo is the All *****/Brazilian solenoid installed on the bike. Not the best pic but it was kinda cramped taking the pic in the garage.
Hope this stuff helps ya...or, at least, entertains ya some.
Good info. thanks. I'm surprised that silver plating wouldn't just burn away immediately at the contact points. Interesting...
cj_slowdown,
Here's the pics. I need to come up with a better "filing" system for my parts. It took a while to find this stuff.
As you can see, the Accel kit uses copper for the cable attachment bolts/internal contacts.
The movable contact washer is non-magnetic so I'm guessing that it is stainless...or MAYBE silver plated copper but I kinda doubt that. It doesn't say anything about the material it is made from in the instructions.
The next two photos are of the box the solenoid came in from All *****. That is the All ***** P/N on the box. I see their P/N sticker was placed over the Brazilian P/N sticker.
The last photo is the All *****/Brazilian solenoid installed on the bike. Not the best pic but it was kinda cramped taking the pic in the garage.
Hope this stuff helps ya...or, at least, entertains ya some.
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#8
09-01-2008, 06:36 PM
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Many years ago I replaced a stock solenoid on my old '78 FL with an Accel unit. It worked fine for quite a few years. Rebuilt it as needed with no problems. One thing I noticed with the rebuild kits is many of them had only copper contacts, with no silver plating on the copper. They don't last as long as the silver contacts. I was in the Navy for some of the time I had the bike and used to cut a deal with someone and get my contacts plated whenever I got a motor starter overhauled. Couple other tricks were to simply flip the movable contact over and use the other side, or use a stainless steel washer for the movable contact. Either way the stationary contacts needed dressing with sandpaper (never emory cloth!).
ACCEL made some really good products it’s today after seeing the one made in this country and the one from china, I didn’t see anything setting them apart ? only different colors plastic washers, if you look at the little bolts that hold on the top of the solenoid, notice how tight it would be to take them out, (in my first post) in fact I couldn’t because of the closeness of the plastic top to the bolt heads, I don’t know looks like it was design not to be re-built, but that is how things are today.
Silver contacts ! yeah that’s what Im talking about ! damn wish I could have an already made kit like that !
Thanks for the tips
cj
#9
09-01-2008, 06:38 PM
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cj_slowdown,
Yes, it is a 10:1 engine.
All I can remember is the rebuild kit I have is an Accel. Are you gonna make me go dig it out and take a picture of it? When I get out to the garage today I will look for it. I'd be happy to send you a pic of what's in the box.
When my engine is warm, the bike starts easier for some reason...of course, anytime it starts easier is fine with me.
I don't remember if this Brazilian solenoid from All ***** has that copper, or brass, liner in there or not, sorry. I don't wanna pull it off cuz its a pain to reseal it (I gotta use silicon sealer or that ATF in there leaks out).
Yes, it is a 10:1 engine.
All I can remember is the rebuild kit I have is an Accel. Are you gonna make me go dig it out and take a picture of it? When I get out to the garage today I will look for it. I'd be happy to send you a pic of what's in the box.
When my engine is warm, the bike starts easier for some reason...of course, anytime it starts easier is fine with me.
I don't remember if this Brazilian solenoid from All ***** has that copper, or brass, liner in there or not, sorry. I don't wanna pull it off cuz its a pain to reseal it (I gotta use silicon sealer or that ATF in there leaks out).
"Yes, it is a 10:1 engine."
Well I guess they should change the name from All ***** to Small ***** !! : - )))
I would love to have higher compression I could have had the next S&S shovel up for pocket change, I think it was 10:1 but the gas of today scares the hell out of me ! I hate corn oil ! I drive almost 30 miles to the next county up just to get non-ethanol gas at this shell station, in fact I asked two different tanker drivers dropping off a load, both said they would get arrested if they tank up the next shell down the road 3 miles ! when I fill up mp car I take some plastic gals cans fill it up with 93 for the bike back at home and I seem when I go for a ride I go up there on my way out, just to fill up there, just as POCOCJ hates chrome, I hate ethanol !
"All I can remember is the rebuild kit I have is an Accel. Are you gonna make me go dig it out and take a picture of it? When I get out to the garage today I will look for it. I'd be happy to send you a pic of what's in the box."
No don't bother but thanks, I just think I will shop around for a re-build kit
"When my engine is warm, the bike starts easier for some reason...of course, anytime it starts easier is fine with me.
I don't remember if this Brazilian solenoid from All ***** has that copper, or brass, liner in there or not, sorry. I don't wanna pull it off cuz its a pain to reseal it (I gotta use silicon sealer or that ATF in there leaks out)."
That is ok, if I don't get this NOS I will call or e-mail All-***** and ask them, yeah the one I took out has oil in it but the gasket was a little beat, I did get a new one at HD
cj_slowdown,
"Here's the pics. I need to come up with a better "filing" system for my parts. It took a while to find this stuff."
Me and you and most others need a better filing system !!!! : - )))
"As you can see, the Accel kit uses copper for the cable attachment bolts/internal contacts.
The movable contact washer is non-magnetic so I'm guessing that it is stainless...or MAYBE silver plated copper but I kinda doubt that. It doesn't say anything about the material it is made from in the instructions."
WTH is that clear washer on the stem ?? is it plastic ? : - )) it does look like plastic : - )) stainless isn't the best conductor, brass or copper would be better I think, pic of have is of mine I could have just flipped it, but as you can see the spring cup on the shaft is broken, thanks for the pics it helped.
"The next two photos are of the box the solenoid came in from All *****. That is the All ***** P/N on the box. I see their P/N sticker was placed over the Brazilian P/N sticker.
The last photo is the All *****/Brazilian solenoid installed on the bike. Not the best pic but it was kinda cramped taking the pic in the garage."
Looks good I like that gold tinned battery cable lug !!! nice connection, the finish is like the one at the HD dealer I saw yesterday, thanks for the trouble in taking it ! I know what crowded garage/shed is all about !!! : - )
"Hope this stuff helps ya...or, at least, entertains ya some."
Are you kidding it's info ! the more info helps all !, I got to post these new derby and inspection cover gaskets I got from J&P, whats with those little rubber washers ?
Thanks for all the info megawatt !
cj
#10
09-01-2008, 07:24 PM
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Hi pococj,
Good info. thanks. I'm surprised that silver plating wouldn't just burn away immediately at the contact points. Interesting...
cj_slowdown,
Here's the pics. I need to come up with a better "filing" system for my parts. It took a while to find this stuff.
As you can see, the Accel kit uses copper for the cable attachment bolts/internal contacts.
The movable contact washer is non-magnetic so I'm guessing that it is stainless...or MAYBE silver plated copper but I kinda doubt that. It doesn't say anything about the material it is made from in the instructions.
The next two photos are of the box the solenoid came in from All *****. That is the All ***** P/N on the box. I see their P/N sticker was placed over the Brazilian P/N sticker.
The last photo is the All *****/Brazilian solenoid installed on the bike. Not the best pic but it was kinda cramped taking the pic in the garage.
Hope this stuff helps ya...or, at least, entertains ya some.
Good info. thanks. I'm surprised that silver plating wouldn't just burn away immediately at the contact points. Interesting...
cj_slowdown,
Here's the pics. I need to come up with a better "filing" system for my parts. It took a while to find this stuff.
As you can see, the Accel kit uses copper for the cable attachment bolts/internal contacts.
The movable contact washer is non-magnetic so I'm guessing that it is stainless...or MAYBE silver plated copper but I kinda doubt that. It doesn't say anything about the material it is made from in the instructions.
The next two photos are of the box the solenoid came in from All *****. That is the All ***** P/N on the box. I see their P/N sticker was placed over the Brazilian P/N sticker.
The last photo is the All *****/Brazilian solenoid installed on the bike. Not the best pic but it was kinda cramped taking the pic in the garage.
Hope this stuff helps ya...or, at least, entertains ya some.