2007 Tranny problem!
#2081
08-13-2007, 06:09 PM
RE: 2007 Tranny problem!
What is causing the compensator to clatter in the first place? Wouldn't the fix that remedies the comp from clattering so muchbe the fix, not an IDS which is just a cushion for the (Symptom), i.e. clatter. I'm assuming the IDS only works while the bike is moving, since it is attached to the rear wheel and basically isan additionalcompensatorto absorbthe vibrations, impulses, what have you, traveling down the drive train. So I don't see how the IDS is the fix for the problem, since the compensator is working and clattering alsoeven when the tranny is in neutral, and wheel not turning.Yes mine and others clatter the same in neutral or in any gear. How would the IDS fix that? The IDS from MOCOjust may be a postponement for an already impending failure, due to a poorly designed drive train! A postponement until the warranty expires!
#2082
08-13-2007, 07:32 PM
RE: 2007 Tranny problem!
ORIGINAL: rmsurveyors
What is causing the compensator to clatter in the first place? Wouldn't the fix that remedies the comp from clattering so muchbe the fix, not an IDS which is just a cushion for the (Symptom), i.e. clatter. I'm assuming the IDS only works while the bike is moving, since it is attached to the rear wheel and basically isan additionalcompensatorto absorbthe vibrations, impulses, what have you, traveling down the drive train. So I don't see how the IDS is the fix for the problem, since the compensator is working and clattering alsoeven when the tranny is in neutral, and wheel not turning.Yes mine and others clatter the same in neutral or in any gear. How would the IDS fix that? The IDS from MOCOjust may be a postponement for an already impending failure, due to a poorly designed drive train! A postponement until the warranty expires!
What is causing the compensator to clatter in the first place? Wouldn't the fix that remedies the comp from clattering so muchbe the fix, not an IDS which is just a cushion for the (Symptom), i.e. clatter. I'm assuming the IDS only works while the bike is moving, since it is attached to the rear wheel and basically isan additionalcompensatorto absorbthe vibrations, impulses, what have you, traveling down the drive train. So I don't see how the IDS is the fix for the problem, since the compensator is working and clattering alsoeven when the tranny is in neutral, and wheel not turning.Yes mine and others clatter the same in neutral or in any gear. How would the IDS fix that? The IDS from MOCOjust may be a postponement for an already impending failure, due to a poorly designed drive train! A postponement until the warranty expires!
#2083
08-13-2007, 07:50 PM
RE: 2007 Tranny problem!
ORIGINAL: zzmellio
So 1800rpm = 45mph in fith gear? I agree that is to low of a shift point for 5th but anything above that and you comp noise is at a minimum if not elimenated? I think the IDS a 30T pulley and the Baker F6F would make our 07 about as perfect as one could hope for.
ORIGINAL: ironoxide
Right at the owners manual shift point for 5th gear - 45MPH. Note: I don't run my bike at this level. I just wanted to make sure the clatter was gone.
ORIGINAL: zzmellio
At 1800 rpm in 5th, how fast are you going?
ORIGINAL: ironoxide
I had my IDS installed today. After a 65 mile ride in 90 degree weather here are my impressions:
As I've said before, my major issue has been with driveline noise associated with 5th gear. My bike had 1) WHINE - which we all have, 2) gear CHATTER while in 5th between 50 and 60 MPH, and 3) CLATTER (compensator bottoming out) at 2200 to 1900 RPM. On my bike items two and three have disappeared. I CAN STILL HEAR the compensator working in all gears and RPM's all the time. However, it's not banging (metal on metal) at low RPM's ie 1800 to 2000 while in 5th gear. I'm also very impressed by how smooth the bike is at speed. My seat of the pants impression is that the vibration felt in the floor boards has been reduced by 40 -50 percent! I'd like to think that since the shock load has been dampened - where the rubber meets the road, that I may get another 1000 miles out of a rear tire. For me the investment was worth it. However, I'm sure other's impressions will vary.
I had my IDS installed today. After a 65 mile ride in 90 degree weather here are my impressions:
As I've said before, my major issue has been with driveline noise associated with 5th gear. My bike had 1) WHINE - which we all have, 2) gear CHATTER while in 5th between 50 and 60 MPH, and 3) CLATTER (compensator bottoming out) at 2200 to 1900 RPM. On my bike items two and three have disappeared. I CAN STILL HEAR the compensator working in all gears and RPM's all the time. However, it's not banging (metal on metal) at low RPM's ie 1800 to 2000 while in 5th gear. I'm also very impressed by how smooth the bike is at speed. My seat of the pants impression is that the vibration felt in the floor boards has been reduced by 40 -50 percent! I'd like to think that since the shock load has been dampened - where the rubber meets the road, that I may get another 1000 miles out of a rear tire. For me the investment was worth it. However, I'm sure other's impressions will vary.
Yes, Anything above that I did not detect any comp sprocket clatter. I agree, the 30T pulley and the F6F would make my bike Goldwing quiet. However, I'm quite satified with what I've got. I feel in my heart that I could put 80,000 miles on the tranny with no issues. Again, that's an unscientific opinion!!!
#2084
08-13-2007, 08:01 PM
RE: 2007 Tranny problem!
ORIGINAL: rmsurveyors
What is causing the compensator to clatter in the first place? Wouldn't the fix that remedies the comp from clattering so much be the fix, not an IDS which is just a cushion for the (Symptom), i.e. clatter. I'm assuming the IDS only works while the bike is moving, since it is attached to the rear wheel and basically is an additional compensator to absorb the vibrations, impulses, what have you, traveling down the drive train. So I don't see how the IDS is the fix for the problem, since the compensator is working and clattering also even when the tranny is in neutral, and wheel not turning. Yes mine and others clatter the same in neutral or in any gear. How would the IDS fix that? The IDS from MOCO just may be a postponement for an already impending failure, due to a poorly designed drive train! A postponement until the warranty expires!
What is causing the compensator to clatter in the first place? Wouldn't the fix that remedies the comp from clattering so much be the fix, not an IDS which is just a cushion for the (Symptom), i.e. clatter. I'm assuming the IDS only works while the bike is moving, since it is attached to the rear wheel and basically is an additional compensator to absorb the vibrations, impulses, what have you, traveling down the drive train. So I don't see how the IDS is the fix for the problem, since the compensator is working and clattering also even when the tranny is in neutral, and wheel not turning. Yes mine and others clatter the same in neutral or in any gear. How would the IDS fix that? The IDS from MOCO just may be a postponement for an already impending failure, due to a poorly designed drive train! A postponement until the warranty expires!
All valid points that I have no answer for. Basically I ask myself, why would the Japanese - who I have a high level of respect for they're engineering expertise, incorporate a cush drive in many of they're motorcycle designs today? Yes, they don't have a compensator sprocket, however they did it all the same. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me! That said, the drive train noise was my only issue with my bike. It didn't surge, vibrate etc...That aside, it's the best Harley I've ever owned.
#2085
08-13-2007, 08:09 PM
Extreme HDF Member
RE: 2007 Tranny problem!
ORIGINAL: ironoxide
Hold on a minute...you put in excess of 10,000 miles on a 07' and they gave you what you paid originally? I'm not buying that! You own the dealership, related to a state senator? Perhaps you are the state senator? Governor perhaps? What the f@#k? However, if that's the truth...good for you!
ORIGINAL: electaRICK
My Major pain in the azz,headache,chatter box, is GONE!!!
I traded for the 105 th Aniv model
I was given what I orig. paid for my bike,,, had to come up with the diff on the msrp price.
kept all my add ons and installed them today... so I didnt loose hardly anything
My Major pain in the azz,headache,chatter box, is GONE!!!
I traded for the 105 th Aniv model
I was given what I orig. paid for my bike,,, had to come up with the diff on the msrp price.
kept all my add ons and installed them today... so I didnt loose hardly anything
well if you would have seen my posts a year ago, my local Dealer sold me the 07 ultra for 19k out the door,plus about $500 worth of chrome to boot!,, (prob'y my 15th toy from him in years)
a diff dealer offered me the same for my bike not knowing what I paid orig.'y
so why not,, I didnt loose a dime, and I kept everything I put on the 07,, which was not taken to well!
as far as heat,, I only have 300 miles on it,, but a 5 day trip coming up in 2 days, so I'll tell you all how it goes.
I dont care at this point about the $ cause after riding the 08,,, i would have given them my bike and $50,000 just to get rid of the bike from He11 !!
happiness can be bought, or traded,,, so,,,, whats holding you back???
again 08,s have it worked out!
#2086
08-13-2007, 08:19 PM
RE: 2007 Tranny problem!
ORIGINAL: electaRICK
well if you would have seen my posts a year ago, my local Dealer sold me the 07 ultra for 19k out the door,plus about $500 worth of chrome to boot!,, (prob'y my 15th toy from him in years)
a diff dealer offered me the same for my bike not knowing what I paid orig.'y
so why not,, I didnt loose a dime, and I kept everything I put on the 07,, which was not taken to well!
as far as heat,, I only have 300 miles on it,, but a 5 day trip coming up in 2 days, so I'll tell you all how it goes.
I dont care at this point about the $ cause after riding the 08,,, i would have given them my bike and $50,000 just to get rid of the bike from He11 !!
happiness can be bought, or traded,,, so,,,, whats holding you back???
again 08,s have it worked out!
ORIGINAL: ironoxide
Hold on a minute...you put in excess of 10,000 miles on a 07' and they gave you what you paid originally? I'm not buying that! You own the dealership, related to a state senator? Perhaps you are the state senator? Governor perhaps? What the f@#k? However, if that's the truth...good for you!
ORIGINAL: electaRICK
My Major pain in the azz,headache,chatter box, is GONE!!!
I traded for the 105 th Aniv model
I was given what I orig. paid for my bike,,, had to come up with the diff on the msrp price.
kept all my add ons and installed them today... so I didnt loose hardly anything
My Major pain in the azz,headache,chatter box, is GONE!!!
I traded for the 105 th Aniv model
I was given what I orig. paid for my bike,,, had to come up with the diff on the msrp price.
kept all my add ons and installed them today... so I didnt loose hardly anything
well if you would have seen my posts a year ago, my local Dealer sold me the 07 ultra for 19k out the door,plus about $500 worth of chrome to boot!,, (prob'y my 15th toy from him in years)
a diff dealer offered me the same for my bike not knowing what I paid orig.'y
so why not,, I didnt loose a dime, and I kept everything I put on the 07,, which was not taken to well!
as far as heat,, I only have 300 miles on it,, but a 5 day trip coming up in 2 days, so I'll tell you all how it goes.
I dont care at this point about the $ cause after riding the 08,,, i would have given them my bike and $50,000 just to get rid of the bike from He11 !!
happiness can be bought, or traded,,, so,,,, whats holding you back???
again 08,s have it worked out!
#2087
08-13-2007, 08:31 PM
RE: 2007 Tranny problem!
My dealer wants it to be right as well. Having said that, I don't really want to trade for 08 because I have made a few mods to fit the bike better to me. The biggest hurdle would be getting the Chubby 575's installed on an 08 because of the drive by wire thing. I'm also not sure I my Road Zepplin seat will swap over.
I'm like IronOxide. I really don't think MY tranny will fail (knock on wood....) and at this point I think mine is just extra-loud whine. I mean to me it sounds like metal pounding on metal in there, but the SE Ultra I road made the same noise but it was faint and would easily be covered up by my not so loud SE slips. Regardless of that, the days I spent riding the Rockies with wife and 50lbs of gear on the bike required extended amouts of time riding in 5th, which while was annoying without earplugs, was solid performance from the drive train.
I just don't know how the IDS will affect the loudness of the whine, it may be the F6F to finally resolve it.
I'm like IronOxide. I really don't think MY tranny will fail (knock on wood....) and at this point I think mine is just extra-loud whine. I mean to me it sounds like metal pounding on metal in there, but the SE Ultra I road made the same noise but it was faint and would easily be covered up by my not so loud SE slips. Regardless of that, the days I spent riding the Rockies with wife and 50lbs of gear on the bike required extended amouts of time riding in 5th, which while was annoying without earplugs, was solid performance from the drive train.
I just don't know how the IDS will affect the loudness of the whine, it may be the F6F to finally resolve it.
#2088
08-13-2007, 08:58 PM
RE: 2007 Tranny problem!
ORIGINAL: ironoxide
Yes, Anything above that I did not detect any comp sprocket clatter. I agree, the 30T pulley and the F6F would make my bike Goldwing quiet. However, I'm quite satified with what I've got. I feel in my heart that I could put 80,000 miles on the tranny with no issues. Again, that's an unscientific opinion!!!
ORIGINAL: zzmellio
So 1800rpm = 45mph in fith gear? I agree that is to low of a shift point for 5th but anything above that and you comp noise is at a minimum if not elimenated? I think the IDS a 30T pulley and the Baker F6F would make our 07 about as perfect as one could hope for.
ORIGINAL: ironoxide
Right at the owners manual shift point for 5th gear - 45MPH. Note: I don't run my bike at this level. I just wanted to make sure the clatter was gone.
ORIGINAL: zzmellio
At 1800 rpm in 5th, how fast are you going?
ORIGINAL: ironoxide
I had my IDS installed today. After a 65 mile ride in 90 degree weather here are my impressions:
As I've said before, my major issue has been with driveline noise associated with 5th gear. My bike had 1) WHINE - which we all have, 2) gear CHATTER while in 5th between 50 and 60 MPH, and 3) CLATTER (compensator bottoming out) at 2200 to 1900 RPM. On my bike items two and three have disappeared. I CAN STILL HEAR the compensator working in all gears and RPM's all the time. However, it's not banging (metal on metal) at low RPM's ie 1800 to 2000 while in 5th gear. I'm also very impressed by how smooth the bike is at speed. My seat of the pants impression is that the vibration felt in the floor boards has been reduced by 40 -50 percent! I'd like to think that since the shock load has been dampened - where the rubber meets the road, that I may get another 1000 miles out of a rear tire. For me the investment was worth it. However, I'm sure other's impressions will vary.
I had my IDS installed today. After a 65 mile ride in 90 degree weather here are my impressions:
As I've said before, my major issue has been with driveline noise associated with 5th gear. My bike had 1) WHINE - which we all have, 2) gear CHATTER while in 5th between 50 and 60 MPH, and 3) CLATTER (compensator bottoming out) at 2200 to 1900 RPM. On my bike items two and three have disappeared. I CAN STILL HEAR the compensator working in all gears and RPM's all the time. However, it's not banging (metal on metal) at low RPM's ie 1800 to 2000 while in 5th gear. I'm also very impressed by how smooth the bike is at speed. My seat of the pants impression is that the vibration felt in the floor boards has been reduced by 40 -50 percent! I'd like to think that since the shock load has been dampened - where the rubber meets the road, that I may get another 1000 miles out of a rear tire. For me the investment was worth it. However, I'm sure other's impressions will vary.
Yes, Anything above that I did not detect any comp sprocket clatter. I agree, the 30T pulley and the F6F would make my bike Goldwing quiet. However, I'm quite satified with what I've got. I feel in my heart that I could put 80,000 miles on the tranny with no issues. Again, that's an unscientific opinion!!!
For me this isa 2 stage process. 1. Get the bike tolerable-IDS install. Ride bike till warranty runs out. 2. Save money and install 30T sprocket and Baker F6F. The whole thing to make this plan happen is the IDS. I dont think I could stand to ride the bike with the noise untill the warranty runs out. Im glad that all the post on the IDS install have been positive. Who knows maybe when I get my IDS installed I'll be totally satisfied and not need the Baker. I gives me great faith in an ending to this. My bike handles like a dream and the motor runs great.
[IMG]local://upfiles/11037/A2509938DC284481A015BF7D9A7E8AB6.jpg[/IMG]
#2089
08-13-2007, 09:27 PM
RE: 2007 Tranny problem!
Tonight I installed my IDS kit,maybe an hr to hr and a half tops.This kit works!Bikeis a joy to ride.Feels smoother,gone is the lurch sometimes felt coming off throttle or into throttle slightly.Bike will not make this clatter if dogged to death.I can honestly saythis was the best day of ownership.Im ready for my plate of crow now.To those of you with this noise,do the kit,enjoy your bike.
#2090
08-13-2007, 09:48 PM
RE: 2007 Tranny problem!
I don't know if this is the specific thread I'd said I would try to leave alone or not. If it is, please gently remind and forgive me.
The cush-drive rear sprocket is at least 25-year-old technology. I know because my chain-drive '83 Honda Interceptor had it. I'm 100% confident that had I not trashed that bike road-racing it (and in other ways) the driveline would still be performing perfectly today. Oh, I might have had to replace the bearing in the sprocket (since it really doesn't spin but just rocks back and forth) and the rubber bumpers a time or two over a couple hundred thousand miles...
If you want the 5th gear "whine" to go away, invest in the Baker replacement parts. They need the stronger bearings with their stronger bearing backing hardware because they're generating far stronger shaft thrust with the helical gearset. Maybe their gearset will last as long as the stock Harley set. Maybe not. Time will tell. But you're not buying a "fix" for a "bad design"! You're merely opting for something different.
The IDS is something I'd think you'd want in any event. It will make everything that spins last longer no matter what (or nothing else) you've done to the driveline.
I wonder how accurate some surveys are and if the customers ever bitch about them...
The cush-drive rear sprocket is at least 25-year-old technology. I know because my chain-drive '83 Honda Interceptor had it. I'm 100% confident that had I not trashed that bike road-racing it (and in other ways) the driveline would still be performing perfectly today. Oh, I might have had to replace the bearing in the sprocket (since it really doesn't spin but just rocks back and forth) and the rubber bumpers a time or two over a couple hundred thousand miles...
If you want the 5th gear "whine" to go away, invest in the Baker replacement parts. They need the stronger bearings with their stronger bearing backing hardware because they're generating far stronger shaft thrust with the helical gearset. Maybe their gearset will last as long as the stock Harley set. Maybe not. Time will tell. But you're not buying a "fix" for a "bad design"! You're merely opting for something different.
The IDS is something I'd think you'd want in any event. It will make everything that spins last longer no matter what (or nothing else) you've done to the driveline.
I wonder how accurate some surveys are and if the customers ever bitch about them...