Cynic,

Regarding transmission design, does some of the force run tangent to a direct line of travel with helical gears - as apposed to spur gears? I really don't know. It's been too long since I took physics! If this is true, perhaps Bakers helical cut 5th gear may reduce some of the force the comp. sees,no?

 

Other than helical gears running quieter due to their wiping action with the mating gear, they transmit power in exactly the samedirection as the straight cut gear does once the side thrust is taken up. I could take this opportunity to demonstrate the negative trade off with helical gears(spin reality), for the way they loose efficiency to lateral thrust, but I won't because it's all relative to how you want to accomplish forward motion.

I still believe the bikes that whine in 5th have very tight primary chains and because of the absence of side thrust in 5th allow the whine to come through louder. People need to look at cause and effect. It's not the trans....

 

Cynic - re: "they transmit power in exactly the samedirection as the straight cut gear"

I"d add that helical-cut gears do not have the same strength as they don't mate 100% across the face, at once, the way in which spur-cut gears do.

Please do not trivialize the problem by describing it as, "gear-whine"; clatter is more precise.The clatter is worse under load, ie, accellerating and oninclines, two-up.. It is definitely present and highly noticeable at LEGAL CRUISING SPEEDS. The engine/transmission are very poorly matched for highway cruising.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if these bikes aren't loaded with potential problems where some have no apparent issues (yet,) some bikes have one or two issues and others are loaded with problems.

Could it be that, and please help me with this list:

Meeting EPA regs causes the bikes to run hot. (lean.)
Meeting EPA regs causes the bikes to lack low end torque. (cam timing, new head design,
fuel maybe.)
Meeting EPA regs causes engine to run rough, telegraphing bad vibes.
Meeting EPA regs prompted too high gearing in sprockets.
Some have bad crankshaft machining.
Side plate on tranny flexes too much.
Bearings in tranny inadaquate.
Tolerances in tranny all over the map.
Compensator is inadequate.
Machining tolerances all over the place anywhere.

I am in no way excusing moco for issues with meeting epa regs. Car manufacturers and other bike manufactures have to do that and R&D doesn't often turn out something that doesn't run right. If you can't figure out how to make it run you don't screw your customers with junk if you want to stay in biz.

What else?

No wonder moco wants its head in the sand...?

Some have reported major improvements with stage 1 or 2. Some have seen no difference. Stage 2 might be good because the cam timing in these is atrocious...

Here's a theory. If the tranny or compensator or both are bad, smoothing out the engine with stage 1 or 2 doesn't fix evrything. If you get lucky and most of your probs are from the engine, then the upgrades might help unless your crank is machined way out of spec.

Hop on a 2005 or earlier. It's not the design of the big twin or the firing order. You can nail it at 1500 RPM and it just pulls away. You can take off in 2nd accidentally without issue. Harleys, I think, have always been famous for having gobs of usable low-end torque.

It's maybe a bunch of additive issues with design, quality controland r&d?

 

hnesitd1.....It seems some bikes whine, clatter or do both. I do not think the trans ratios and motor aren't well matched andabsence any clattering neither do most other people. I'veridden my 06 Dynaacross the Mohaveinto SoCaland upI-5 toCanada and back through all the elevations and weather conditions. I like to cruise at about 85 mph and my Dyna is begging for taller gearing, maybe even taller than the 07 bikes have. Most definitely once I do the Minton torque build.

 

Why do you always say a 2005 or earlier, other then the Dyna's all 2006 Harley's are the same as 2005's and earlier like my '06 FLHRI Road King. Also rbabos you say all straight cut gears whine, my '06 5 speed along with everyone else who has a 5 speedhave all straight cut gears, so why don'tour 5 speed tranny's whine.

 

You have a combination of bad things that make for a substandard, troublesome bike. Poor quality pieces/parts due to cheap manufacture, combined with poor craftsmanship, due to workersvoid of any pride in their trade, Quality Control, or lack of Quality Control, that will allow anything good or defective to be shipped to market. Remember the auto makers years back that went to hell with their products, and everyone started buying foreign cars. It wasn't till the auto makers, and it's workers did a turn around by starting to take pride in their product and work that got peoples attention and then people started buying America cars again. I've said this before, we don't need to own a Harley, I've looked at the market and the metrics are far superior to the MOCO bikes, at least when compared to these 07's and the screw job MOCO is giving it's customers right now. If I was one of the workers who had built these 07's, and if I truly thought they were correctly built, I'd be on this site making my case for MOCO, but to my knowledge they're running and hiding with MOCO, anything for a paycheck. Let's don't butter things over with these 07's, MOCO is intentionally screwing it's customer base and laughing all the way to the bank, like most low life's do. Don't buy their garbage and put um out of business, they have forgotten what American built shouldmean. Anyone who buys one of the 08's and comes in hear complaining about build quality deserves no pity. people in here talking about how MOCO screwed them with the 07, but they're now going to buy an 08 from them. Good choice just let that train keep backing up and running over you or which part of that snake don't you know is a snake?

 

I had my bike serviced today (5k) and I discussed the clatter with them. The technician took my bike for a good long ride and told me that my bike is fairly quiet to some he has heard[:-]

 

oldfartjc: It's just the nature of straight cut gears if meshing is not exact. I'm not talking about loud and in factit would be hard to hear on a bike.If you can hear it over wind noise and drag pipes, then you have a real problem.That is the primary reason helical gearsare used on many gear driven applications. Theyare quieter and don't whine. All the older 4-5 speeds were also straight, but clearances must have been better on them and were on the most part silent. I have never heard my 07 fxstc whine, onlyclatter. I must have a good mesh with them in 1st and 5th. Some people have neither whine or clatter. What it boils down to is lack of quality control in regards to tolerances. Without this, it's impossible to built two the same. I would love to get my hands on the specs and compare how a whiny, clattering gear box measures up to the designed limits. I would bet it's beyond the wear limit in some areas. This could explain why some are quiet and some suck. People with silent trannys should get them fixed. HD would call them abnormal.You can't have it both ways.
Ron

 

You're right of course, but it takes less typing to say 05 than to single out the models.

I have a 96 Evo and an 86 Evo and they are wonderful. I have a 2002 tc88i that's wonderful...

You're right about the straight cut gears too. I think I hear a very slight whine in the 5 speeds but nothing I'd ever need to talk about.

I think rmsurveyors just said it right. It's a bunch of different junk imho. I've already said I'll never darken an HD dealer's door again.

I love Harleys though. That's why any bike I buy from now on will be used. Any part I buy will be aftermarket, ebay, etc.

Neither moco nor any stealer will ever make another dime off of me and that's a promise.