Jbarr1, I hope that was a 'good' 'wow'!!..........lol

 

Not really. A compensator is there for torsional vibration damping. It does not and physically can not “ratchet”. There simply isn’t enough travel in the assembly to do so. It can not “decouple” and that was never its intention.
I would welcome solid proof that says otherwise.

 

Well, agreed on the 'tortional' vibration dampening, but I believe you're incorrect about the ability to 'decouple'. My understanding of this device is that the bevel springs present sufficient pressure to maintain consistent rotation of the crank and gear under all but extreme circumstances.....or a fair amount of fatigue in the springs. If either of those latter conditions exist, the bevel springs and collapse to the point where the cam can rotate over the ramp. The collapsed measurement of the springs essentially exceeds the ramp height, thus allowing the cam to snap over each 'valley' in the ramp until the conditions present cease to exist. The SE compensator actually provides greater collapsed spacing, but also greater spring tension as it's got those 2 more springs. But, again, as I had this explained to me.....that's the two-fold purpose of this thing. And, again, if I'm wrong, I stand corrected. Either way, when the older Compensator is wearing out, 'starting' can be an issue, both in turning the engine over properly, as well as the awful racket created!! That, I dare say, is an undeniable fact!!

 

I'd say you did.. No all of it is correct..

 

The Bellville springs are designed to bottom before the cam over centers.. Now on a M8 you can break the sliding cam and stop the go..

 

I suspect that if the bike is jumping in first, your buddy bought a bike that has worn dog clutches in first gear.. The guy your buddy bought the bike from liked to burn rubber in first..

 

That is wrong, They are designed to bottom the springs alibet gently.. The ramp has a curve to it to help.. If you wind the motor and dump the clutch you'll bottom spring in the comp.

The original TC comps go back to early EVOs and are quite robust but don't work as well as the 06 dyna/07-up comps.. Those had more travel and were smoother.. The problem was that the early ones didn't last if the bike was run hard. Springs were the major problem tho some broke on the early 6 speed comps.. The big issue was the splines on the sliding cam wore out.. I went through 3-4 of them.. I was getting them for free while everyone thought the SE one was the bee's knees... Until they found out they didn't last either when the 103s were pumped up and HD redesigned.

 

Max, maybe you can give me a bit more detail on your comment above about the first gear dog clutches? I'm familiar with the term 'shift dog', but not 'dog clutch'. My understanding on a shift dog is that this is the piece that typically engages a running gear in a synchro-mesh transmission. A shift dog can rotate independently on a shaft and just make a connection between two gears, or it can actually be splined on to the shaft and connect a gear to the shaft. Either of these actions are involved in the overall shift process. And these shift dogs are operated by shift forks, which ultimately are connected to, in the case of a motorcycle trans, a rotating drum which selects the gears sequentially up or down.

Anyway, I have to say that I'm about at my wit's end with this project. After taking the advice that the tooth-belts basically can't stretch or skip when properly adjusted, I gave this one more test with the belt adjusted at the tight end of the spec using two different belt tension gauges. The same symptom occurred, which lead me to abandon the belt ratcheting as being the source of this 'slippage', and turn my attention to the clutch. Yesterday I removed it, inspected the individual plates and discs, and found some pretty severe signs of overheating on the plates. Most were 'blued' and discolored, with a couple of them almost black in color. The friction discs didn't look too bad, but based on the condition of the plates, I was very 'suspect' that I might have found the problem. I actually took the clutch to one friend who agreed, said the clutch looked shot to him, and in his opinion ought to be replaced. I also took the clutch to the bike's owner and showed it to him. As his profession is an automotive automatic transmission repair specialist, he also agreed the appearance of the clutch merited replacement. So, off to the local HD dealer I went! I purchased a new SE Clutch, consisting of both plates and friction discs, as well as a new SE diaphragm spring, and a new bottle of RedLine Primary fluid.

I got home last night just as the N. E. remnants of Tropical Storm Debby were hitting the Chesapeake Bay and the Baltimore/Annapolis area. I managed to get the new clutch installed and the bike buttoned up, but couldn't test drive it due to heavy rain. The new SE clutch requires the removal of the two small bands at the drum-end, as the OE clutch has a smaller diameter first friction disc. The new SE clutch has all the friction discs the same size, so after removal of those two rings I proceeded to install the new components. I'll add that I did soak the friction discs, then started with the first friction disc, then a plate, then a friction disc, etc...until all 9 friction discs were installed separated by all 8 plates. The pressure plate then went on, then the new diaphragm spring, then the spring retainer, the six 10mm bolts, all torqued to 100 inch pounds. I'll add that all this was done with the clutch cable adjuster completely collapsed. After final assembly of the clutch, I reinstalled the adjustment piece and lock nut.....tightened the adjuster until it bottomed against the actuator rod, backed it off 1/2 a turn, then tightened the lock nut. I then took out all the slack in the cable at the adjuster barrel leaving about 1/8" play at the clutch lever. This is basically 100% per the shop manual procedure!!

Today I tested it....and the problem remains. I'm just completely baffled!! I called all the guys I know that have ANY knowledge of HDs, and most of them asked why I was calling them? To them, I was the guy that knows what he's doing. After nearly 60 years of wrenching on motorcycles, I feel like back in my parents driveway when I was 14 and had parts all over the concrete......and was scratching my head saying: "I WILL figure this out!!!'. Only thing is.....I ain't doing so well right now.

So, it's got a brand new SE clutch in, properly installed and properly adjusted, and a primary case with 32oz of RedLine Primary Fluid. If you drive this thing 'normally', you won't experience anything other than essentially 'normal' predictable behavior. BUT, if you do a 'normal' brake away in 1st, roll up to about 10 to 15 mph, then give it WOT, it will pull hard and quickly up to about 3K rpm. Then, at about 3000 to 3500 rpm (est as these bikes don't have a tach) the engine rpms rev up, and the acceleration just slows, and there is a shudder in the lower area of the engine. I don't know how better to describe it, and as I said initially, I thought this might be a 'belt ratchet' symptom. Not having ever felt it or experienced 'belt ratchet'..... I guess I just wasn't sure!! But, now, after all the tightening I've done, and with NO signs of damage anywhere on the belt or teeth, I just switched my focus to the clutch. I mean; What else is there to 'slip'? It's almost the same kind of sensation you'd get if the back wheel might be losing traction of a patch of wet pavement, only there IS NO WET PAVEMENT..... and the typical 'fish-tail' feeling is also non-existent. Frankly, I'm pretty sure that's NOT the problem. My last comment to support that is that today, on my 'test drive'..... I throttled it hard after the first slippage, and after shifting into second. I actually got the same slipping in the upper RPM range in 2nd gear, though seemingly not as bad.

So, bike is now back home, in my garage, and I'm just not sure what to do next. I guess I just start tearing it down again and look for ANYTHING that might cause this. But, any further ideas or comments......... PLEASE...... let me have 'em!

Thanks! TSD

 

I haven't followed the thread for awhile but I had asked previously if you had checked the front belt pulley for tightness? Loose front pulleys can strip their teeth and 'jump.'

 

You replaced the tire/wheel - correct?

Put a mark on the tire and wheel at the same location. Sharpie or tape or whatever. Go for a rip, then check the marks. The tire may be spinning on the wheel.