People are using that same argument for the CSC RX4 which is a fully loaded 450 cc 'adventure bike' made by Zongshen in China, reported to be one of the world's largest producers of motorcycles in Asia. CSC's price with bags, bash bars, bash plate, etc. is $4995 + $500 fees. It appears to be a pretty capable dirt road bike and makes the BMW offerings look hugely overpriced.

The PA will not be a light small displacement adventure bike but it will be lighter and more powerful than the Ultra Limited I ride now. If it rides well I may spring for one but with your V85TT, the R1250GS, and Yamaha 1200 Tenere you get a shaft drive. The PA will be a chain so trying to command a price equivalent to a R1250GS will be difficult. I expect the PA to come in around the base price of the BMW which we all know cannot be had in the USA as everything has the Premium package making it more expensive than the old now defunct Ultra Classic if you add bags to the GS. Crazy!

I do like the V85TT though, except the closest MG dealer to me is not really close at all!

 

On the RX4...

I had an RX3. Bought it for $2500 with less than 10 miles on it. Rode it 5,000 miles in a month. Did the southern half of the Continental Divide Trail on it.

It was an unbelievable amount of features for an incredibly tiny amount of money. It was also a grossly underpowered, overweight, and decidedly mediocre bike, with really nothing to recommend it other than the price tag.

It was the equivalent of a basic economy seat on Spirit Air. It cost hardly anything, and it did get me where I was going, but when I got rid of it I was happy to see it go, and I would never repeat that experience if I could possibly afford something better.

When I saw the RX4, I thought it addressed the RX3's major power shortcoming (a 250cc engine) but it was just more of the same: more money, more weight, more cheap luggage and cheap everything. So I was never interested in the slightest. Been there with the RX3, no interest in doing the same thing on a bigger budget.

The V85TT is more like a first class ticket on a high quality airline. It's extremely good at everything it does, and it makes me happy to ride it and happy to even just look at it. It's reasonable weight (same weight as the RX4) with an engine twice the size, and perfect ergonomics and ride experience. It's like a combo of riding a flying carpet at cruising speeds, riding a thoroughbred horse when accelerating, and flying a fighter jet when carving the twisties. And yes, thank heavens it has a shaft drive.

So I understand why people might be attracted to the value proposition of the Chinese bike; I was suckered into it too. But man, life is so much better in first class than it is in a middle seat in the back of a Spirit flight.

To me, that's the real danger of the cheap bikes. If they're not all that fun, not all that special, then they run the risk of snuffing out the motorcycling spirit in new riders before it has a chance to really catch fire.

 

To markets I want it cheap and those that don't need to care about price. Dam little in the middle.

 

I think it's reasonable to expect the Revolution Max lineup to come to market at prices similar to the current Sportster line or just a tad higher, considering that what H-D has announced are Sportster sized bikes. Hopefully there will be a few bikes in the line that are direct replacements for current and recently dropped Sportster models. My theory is that H-D hasn't announced those bikes, yet, because they aren't considered news worthy in the way that branching out into new styles of bikes is.

If the new product line works out as planned, I would expect to see the Pan America 1250, 975 and 750 competing with the BMW R1200GS, F850GS Adventure and F750GS on price but with a little less tech. A 500cc version of the Pan America may even come out, but I wouldn't expect it to be price competitive with the CSC RX4 or the BMW G310GS. Maybe a baby Pan America could beat those bikes on power, build quality and dealer support.

 

What would do it for me is the Revolution motor in a bike that would be close to the same look as a Sportster. About 500 lbs and low Center of gravity. Price around $1,000 more then the 2020 Sportster. 1 model with running boards and bags. I would buy one for sure.

 

H-D says they will finally come out with the bikes they have announced so far in the spring of 2021. My guess is that after a year of working through whatever new product issues these bikes have H-D will replace the Sportsters and Streets in 2022 with bikes that fill the same functions as well as new sizes of those new models that actually manage to sell.

 

THIS.

But its a pipe dream. It'll be a hunched over butt-high no rear fender jacked up in the rear solo seat setup with a praying mantis headlight mounted about 2" above the front wheel.

 

I was thinking about buying a Bronx if the price was right. By Harley adding these new models they were at least giving customers another option. If I want a sport bike right now I would have to go to Triumph, Ducati, or BMW. Meanwhile while I'm there the sales guys could attempt to persuade me and next thing ya know it I'm trading in one for the other. Then somebody who liked Harley has now moved on to a new motorcycle with new gadgets and is thinking it's the best bike ever. Then they tell their friends and everyone finds out BMW is great. Well there goes at least one future Harley lover down the drain. So Harley has lost two customers over not having a sport bike, and the number will continue to grow.

 

Well thisRevzilla article is a kick in the shorts. It sounds like we should see the Pan America next year but maybe not the Bronx. Maybe not any of the proposed new models ever.

If they are going ahead with some of the new models it makes sense to prioritize the 1250 Custom over the Bronx just because the Custom uses they same motor as the Pan America whereas the Bronx is the 975 cc version.

 

The earnings report was clear, HD is making serious changes to the cycle plan to save money. Unfortunately for the Pan America, canceling all the other variants that were going to use the Revolution Max engine will now make the PA very expensive. Think millions to design and develop to manufacture an engine for 3000 bikes (if that).

A company cannot 'cut' their way to prosperity. Saving money now means more cuts later. With these engines ready for production (7 months to the introduction is production ready) that cost needs to be spread out over a lot of product to recoup the investment.

I hope all the news is wrong. To me it looked like it would be a new Sportster lineup. If this CEO keeps the 1950's Sportster instead it will be a huge mistake.

As for me I was planning on riding one of the first PA's available and buying it if I liked it. Now I may hold off a year or two to see if it is still around.