My wife and I usually take our vacation on the bike to see the grand kids, and all that, but this year after buying the 07 Ultra Clatter, we canceled the vacation, just don't trust that clatter noise and vibration that's in this bike. Besides, MOCO has made it clear that they are not going to stand behind these 07's. What a mess that would be, hundreds of miles away from home and the engine/tranny comes apart, as we all suspect will happen sooner than later, and MOCO says we're not going towarranty the repairs. Now, not only is my bike stranded away from home, but I now haft to get my wife and I back to the home place, on top of the added expense of having the bike towed back home as well. I can't believe I have a $20,000.00 + bike, that can't be trusted to travel much distance on. I realize anything man makes can fail, but why take a chance with something that's this obviousof failure, way before it's time! And even if it didn't fail, I hate listening to that clatter noisethat just ruins the whole ride for me and my wife. Thanks MOCO, your a disgrace to your forefathers and the Harley name, as well!

 

I have a new '07 Road King Classic, purchased end of April. My dealer gave me the same line of bull when I came up on my 1000 mile warranty and told him I wanted to have him put in my own oil (at the time Mobil 1 V-twin synthetic 20w-50 in the engine and primary, and Mobil 1 75w-90 synthetic gear oil in th tranny). He and his service manager initally told me it would void the warranty, made me feel like an idiot, almost criminal to use anything other than HD product. I called MOCO - this was in May - and told them about it, cited the Consumer Protection laws , told them that we'd have a good time in court naming Mobil 1/Exxon as a defendant to support my case. They actually apologized for the dealer's demeanor, and backed off the '"void warranty" thing stating that it would not automatically void my warranty, but "if it could be proved that my oil and lubricant choice caused the failure, it might weaken the warranty... I just laughed and asked how they would prove that a better product that meets and beats their required specs could be blamed for failure of their engine or tranny. I insisted on a log/case number and thanked them for the clarification I then went to my dealer and insisted on my oil choice when I had the service done. They still tried to bully me, but I held my ground and asked them to put the void warranty in writing - they changed the subject, but said I'd be sorry using anything other than HD SYN3... I later went to an independent shop to change out my primary to a different gear oil, and gee, it looked like it had never been changed when I had my 1000 mile - it was only a few hundred miles later. Seriously questioning whether I'll let them touch my bike again.I have since made sure I have all the tools I need to do my own fluid changes.

Long story short, don't let the dealer bully you, keep a dated, written record of all conversations you have with them, bring someone else along, AND ride the hell out of your bike! Mine has the clatter, 5th gear noise, etc. I did a lot of field testing of different oils and gear lubes. I am currently running Amsoil 20w-50 in the engine and primary, and Redline Heavy Shockproof in the tranny... this combination really works great, still noisy, but not as bad, and runs cooler. And guess what? I left Oregon last Friday morning for Sturgis... riding in 100 degree heat across Oregon and Idaho, Wyoming mountain passes and extreme eleveation changes - from 400ft sea level to almost 10,00ft. I am riding hard, and the bike is holding up like a champ... still noisy, and makes some funny noises now and again, but... it's a great ride. If it blows up on me, I just hope it happens on the way home in a few weeks. I've put almost 1600 miles on it since I left, and really don't have any concerns that it will continue to perform like a King. I'll probably change the oil and filter before I get back. If it does fail, it IS under warranty. I will make sure of that.

Check out my Sturgis trip blog - see what my bike has traveled: http://www.edgerider.com/

 

OK, I scanned this tonight, but will read it all later and comment. But one thing I saw was after market parts and someone saying that the MOCO has to prove that the after market part caused the failure.

That is true - unless - the aftermarket part is for racing. If it is, and many are, your warranty is void in total. Read the warranty, it specifically excludes racing.

So ANY SE part can void the warranty, they are specific to racing.
You really need to watch the part, 50 state legal on the street and such.

The stealer can claim on my bike that the warranty was forfetted when I put SE slipons that clealy state on the top for racing use only, not street legal.

So pay attention. If you are that concerned, make sure about the 50 state legal. Otherwise, ride the crap out of it and fix wat brakes.

...gene

 

If that were the case there would be a lot of bikes on the show room floor with NO warranty sincemany dealers install the SE, V&H, PC III, SERT (think Screamin Eagle) etc. before the bike is even sold, to pump up sales. Also, anything on the bike at the time of sale is automatically covered in thewarranty.What MOCO is really saying, and has demonstrated,that anything the dealers install will NOT be considered by MOCO to hurt the bike or void the warranty, but if we the consumer install the part it will hurt the bike and thus, MOCO will void the warranty. That's exactlywhy the MOSS act was written to protect against scams like MOCO is trying to pull.

 

Excellent point about what the dealer installs at the time of sale and delivery of the new bike being covered under warranty. My dealer encouraged me to put V&H slip ons on along with lots of chrome, different seat, etc. And, I distinctly remember him saying that anything they installed on the bike was covered under warranty.

 

gene,

> That is true - unless - the aftermarket part is for racing. If it is, and many are, your warranty is
> void in total. Read the warranty, it specifically excludes racing.

Not true, there's a little more detail in the warranty than that. It does not exclude parts in the racing statement, the warranty says:

Exclusions

[any motorcycle]

2. Which has been abused, misused, improperly stored, used "off the highway," or used for
racing or competition of any kind.

4. Installing off road or competitiion parts to enhance performance may void all or part of
your new motorcycle warranty.

They cannot flatly state that parts use, even competition parts, will void your warranty becauseit would be a violation of the warranty act. Thephrase 'may void' falls back on the direct causeof the failure requirement in the law.


> So ANY SE part can void the warranty, they are specific to racing.
> You really need to watch the part, 50 state legal on the street and such.

> The stealer can claim on my bike that the warranty was forfetted when I put SE slipons that
> clealy state on the top for racing use only, not street legal.

So stop using SE parts. Look in other catalogs, do you see crossed flags or hands or stoplights? Andrews,S&S, V&H, Rinehart,and the rest of the marketdon't list their parts as racing, street or 50 state legal. My Pro Pipe doesn't have a stamp that says racing, not street legal,or anything else. Stop using their junk and giving them something to use against you.

 

If I was a dealer and thought that putting a brand/ typeof oil in an engine would cause an issue of ANY kind, proper response would be to refuse to put it in. By taking my AMSOIL in to have them put it in, they're techinically endorsing it's okay to use when they put it in, right? If I (as a service writer) had that big of problem with it and the customer insisted I use that oil, I would have them write down that I refused and they insisted. You walk in with 5 cans of Marvel Mystery oil, tell them to run that in your engine, I'm thinking they'd say "no way".

 

The whole thing in a nut shell is any pieces/part/fluids (aftermarket or OEM) must be installed in a manner thatis NOT the direct cause of failure or warranty that is claimed. Just because something is labeled for racing or NOT street legal doesn't mean it will automatically damage the bike, nor does it qualify MOCO to cancel the warranty. If that were the case 90% of all Harley's would be void of warranty, since MOST owners don't care for the bikes in their stock form, which MOCO knows this. Also, the dealers had better stop encouraging the sales and installation of after market products, (which by the way is much of their profits),because they are a representative of HD, and can be held just as liableas MOCO, when making recommendations or fornot informing the customer of some hidden clause that may void their warranty if installed. As for my dealer, they encouragedIpurchase the V&H ovals, SE breather and PC III, to better the bikes all around performance, which it has greatly, i.e. No more leg burns, smoother and equalcylinder combustion, no engine surge, no bluing pipesand better gas mileage. In fact, my dealer will sell you a race download, SE breather and performance exhaustfor your brand new, shiny HD and tell you it's for the better, which it is. However, they may report you to MOCO after they've got your money, that's what happen to me anyway.What makes the dealers and MOCO mad is when you install the parts yourself, they want those added bucks for installation. MOCO and the dealers know these type upgrades do nothing to damage the bike's mechanics and contrary do more to helm the performance and longevity of the bike. Put MOCO's OEM bike on a dyno and one with upgrades and see which one is running correctly and efficiently, I can guarantee you it won't be the OEM one that's correctly running, and you'd better be wearing flame proof paints while riding the OEM version!

 

I don't know of any brand on todays market thatwould cause mechanical damage/s. After all it wouldn't come over to good if someones product was causing massive mechanical failures, especially caused by Amsoil, Mobil or one of the top brands. Also, that SYN 3 is one of the lowest of the brands out there. Good example, when I first got my 07 Ulra Clatter, I used SYN 3 and the valve train clattered like crazy, which MOCO also said was normal to hear the lifters clattering away. However, after changing to Mobil 1 V-twin the lifters immediately stopped clattering. So the proof is in the pudding. Oh by the way MOCO, in case you haven't caught on yet, hydraulic lifters were designed to be quiet, that's one of their great advantages over solids.

 

"By taking my AMSOIL in to have them put it in, they're techinically endorsing it's okay to use when they put it in, right? "

No the dealer/MoCo isn't endorsing the oil. The Society of Automotive Engineers has certified through rigorous testing that the oil meets the requirements of the OEM. Hence we have a standardized rating system. As long as you are using an oil that meets specs you can use anything you want and the burden falls completely on the MoCo to prove the oil caused the problem.

In fact Amsoil waranties their own product so if it were possible to prove that properly rated Amsoil lubricants caused the failure then Amsoil would cover the repairs.

BTW I'm an Amsoil dealer and I've been using it since the early '90s. Ihave a 1992 FXRP with 80k on it that has been Amsoil since the 500 mile service.