If you dino oil junkies haven't noticed yet they are repackaging Havoline. So all the old 20w50 is in the closeout bin at Advance Auto Parts. Better hurry!

 

I'm on it!

 

$1.55qt today here at AAP

 

You can buy my four quarts. The crap won't turn over once it goes below 35 degrees.

 

I never think about starting my bike below 40*F......but I use M-1 anyway.....my riding threshold is >48*F period. I just can't take the aches & pains afterwards. []

 

Turns over in mine just like any other 20w- oil. Yesterday it was 29 and it cranked fine while I was testing the clutch basket alignment.

 

Where is this

 

Advance Auto Parts

 

Skip, first let me say I admire your knowledge and more often than not agree with your posts.
However, I gotta take issue with your statement "Turns over in mine just like any other 20w- oil."
While the Havoline may in fact turn over in your bike at 29 degrees. I can assure you that it does not flow in any way like a synthetic does at the same temp. Your petroleum oil has a moderatley high level of paraffinic content. Parafin begins to solidify at room temperature. As the paraffins begin to solidify, they form a honey comb like structure that at the very least inhibits flow, in the worst case scenario, stops flow. Even with additives to inhibit the formation of the honey comb structures, unless your petroleum oil is brand new, those additives degrade very quickly once exposed to the heat of engine operation.

A very simple and convincing experiment that can be performed at home tells the tale.

Place a quart of your favorite petroleum oil and a quart of your favorite synthetic oil in the freezer for an hour. At the end of the hour, pour the oil into a container of your choice. Let me know which one you want in your crank case in cold weather.
This is not a humble opinion, this is simply a fact. With all due respect

Steve[sm=icon_rock.gif]

 

Steve, the lower value in the SAE rating is measured by timing how long a quantity of oil can flow out of a graduated cylinder at 0°C (centipose viscosity), and any oil rated at 20w should flow at a similar rate as any other like-rated oil. The upper rating (centistroke viscosity) is measured at 100°C. That said, I once tested RP 20w50, M1 15w50, and RP Nitro 50 by placing them in my freezer (-12°C) for several hours. Using an unscientific method--holding a cup in each hand, pouring, and observing--I came up with this order (speed to empty the cup): Nitro 50, RP 20w50, and M1 15w50. There is no SAE rating for the Nitro 50 since it is a racing oil (for nitro-methane-burning dragsters), but the second and third placers should've been reversed. The results were not dramatic, but conclusive. Perhaps it would've been reversed at 0°C, but I doubt it.

Frankly, flow rates at 0°C are irrelevant for my application, for it is a rare occurrence for me to crank up in air temps lower than 45°F (7°C). Any 20w50 oil should flow fine in the temperatures most of us ride in. More importantly, synthetics tend to stick to metal surfaces longer than fossil oil, making the cold-cranking ordeal much less stressful. As we know, most wear on an engine occurs when cold starting. I saw this first-hand when an ex-client of mine, who markets synthetic-oil additives to oil companies, did a test on two identical vehicles in a near-identical environment for 30k miles, changing the oil at 3k intervals. One was 10w30 fossil and the other 10w30 M1. They removed the intake manifold and oil pan in each vehicle for inspection. For the engine running fossil oil, there was already a sludge build-up, while with the M1 there was none. In about an hour I noticed that the engine with M1 still looked "wet," i.e. there was still a coating on the lifter valley and other metal surfaces, but the fossil engine looked dry. One of the engineers described the stickiness phenomenon I mentioned before. This translates into easier cold starts and much less wear being realized on engines running synthetic oil.