Now I am worried! Is synthetic really more harm then good in the motor?
#1
04-19-2010, 09:48 PM
Now I am worried! Is synthetic really more harm then good in the motor?
Came across this writing on the internet tonight that left me scratching my head. I have been running Amsoil Synthetic oils in my RK since I bought it. I have posted what I read from HarleyHelp.com
"I am not totally against synthetic oils, I prefer to use synthetic oils in my wife's Honda and her Buick and I even use Synthetic oil in my 1963 GMC pickup, I will also say that they tend to work very well in H-D transmissions and primaries. If you choose to use Synthetic motor oils in your V-Twin, roller bearing style motors, you may notice right away that the engine seems to run quieter and cooler than it did with H-D oil, but do not be fooled, you might not like the early component failures and major engine damage you could experience after only 20,000 or 30,000 miles."
"Harley-Davidson oil is always worth the extra money. I can't stress this enough with my customers. I'm not a salesman or anything, I try to only use H-D oil in any bike I work on, even when I worked in aftermarket shops (I even recommend HD oil in the Big Dogs and other S&S motors).
H-Ds and most other V-Twins are roller bearing engines and most others (foreign bikes, automotive, ect.) are flat "Babbitt bearing" or "Plain bearing" style engines, which require as "Slick" as possible oil (synthetic). If that type of oil is used in a Harley motor, you could be faced with what is called "Bearing Skate", that is when the roller bearing starts to slide on it's race instead of roll and creates flat spots, which creates friction and heat, which winds up at engine failure. Harley oil is formulated to be sort of..... tacky, to allow the bearings to roll. It is also formulated to withstand higher temperatures, for those days stuck in traffic. More research has gone into developing Harley-Davidson oil than anything else they make because of how hot the motors were getting back in the '70s."
H-Ds and most other V-Twins are roller bearing engines and most others (foreign bikes, automotive, ect.) are flat "Babbitt bearing" or "Plain bearing" style engines, which require as "Slick" as possible oil (synthetic). If that type of oil is used in a Harley motor, you could be faced with what is called "Bearing Skate", that is when the roller bearing starts to slide on it's race instead of roll and creates flat spots, which creates friction and heat, which winds up at engine failure. Harley oil is formulated to be sort of..... tacky, to allow the bearings to roll. It is also formulated to withstand higher temperatures, for those days stuck in traffic. More research has gone into developing Harley-Davidson oil than anything else they make because of how hot the motors were getting back in the '70s."
"I am not totally against synthetic oils, I prefer to use synthetic oils in my wife's Honda and her Buick and I even use Synthetic oil in my 1963 GMC pickup, I will also say that they tend to work very well in H-D transmissions and primaries. If you choose to use Synthetic motor oils in your V-Twin, roller bearing style motors, you may notice right away that the engine seems to run quieter and cooler than it did with H-D oil, but do not be fooled, you might not like the early component failures and major engine damage you could experience after only 20,000 or 30,000 miles."
#2
04-19-2010, 09:58 PM
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That myth was derailed a long time ago. HD didnt like you to use synthetic because they didnt make any. Now they do and suddenly it's OK. Some sportbikes use ceramic rollers in high rpm applications because they will skate, but because of inertia, not oil. New hd's have a mix of roller, ball, and babbitt bearings. Amsoil is great stuff, lots of people use it.
#4
04-19-2010, 10:03 PM
i would estimate that 90% of harley engines are currently using some brand of synthetic oil, as they've been using for several years now. bearing skate isn't something that happened because the synthetics came out, it's been a potential issue for a very long time. dino oils work fine, but since it's been proven that synthetics are superior in almost every way than the dinosaur oils, i choose to use synthetic lubes, as i believe most of the harley riders do as well. by the way, harley motors have had roller bearings in the crank forever it seems, and i've not heard of any issues pertaining to the use of synthetics since they became popular. as far as failures at the 20 to 30 thousand mile mark, i disagree, as most of us have loads more miles than that without experiencing problems with roller bearings. if you believe it though, more power to ya. i'm not trying to flame your thread, but facts are facts, and i prefer to believe the real facts.
#5
04-19-2010, 10:04 PM
I'm not quite sure what to say to this. Like you, I use nothing but AMSOIL im my bikes, truck, lawnmower, boat and 4 wheeler. In my bikes, I use AMSOIL 20-50 in my engine, primary and transmission. My Road King has 72,000 miles on it without missing a beat. I honestly dont care what anyone says about synthetics or AMSOIL, I'll always use it and trust it.
#6
04-19-2010, 10:04 PM
Road Master
The whole "Bearing Skate" myth is left over from the old days when Harley didn't sell a synthetic oil. Synthetic oil provides better cooling, is slower in breaking down, and has additive packages that surround carbon, and other impurities (thereby keeping them away from engine components on the way back to the filter). I also find it hard to believe the older bike wouldn't perform as well with synthetic oil.
I work in the refinery of a borax mine in the middle of the Mojave desert. We have done extensive testing in our reliability department on speed reducers (Gear Boxes) operating in a desert environment 24 hours a day...7 days a week. The plant is almost 100 years old, and some of our equipment is 30 years old or better. Almost every time synthetic turns out to be the answer. We do have a few places where backstops have to engage to prevent a conveyor from rolling backwards when the belt is turned off. In these situations we have to be careful about using a synthetic that has an anti-friction package as it can stop the backstop from engaging. So...in rare instances in industry friction modifiers can cause issues with equipment. As far as the "bearing skate"....when we have an equipment failure there is a tap root analysis performed to determine why...never has it been an issue with bearing skate. I even asked a trebologist (oil scientist) about bearing skate, and was told it was a farce harley invented...when they didn't succeed in boosting oil sales...they decided to start selling synthetic themselves. Now the claim made by them is that their synthetic is specially engineered for "harley engines"....as if they are made out of some special "unicorn horn" that other engines aren't made of.
My 2 cents is for you to go to several new car dealerships and raise the hood on a porche, corvette, turbo Cadillac, and many other high performance engines. Chances are you'll see one thing in common with the big money/high performance engines....they will all say use only mobil1 on the oil filler cap.
-clutch-
P.S. No matter if it's synthetic, or conventional oil you decide upon...use the same brand at every oil change. Switching back and forth between brands can cause issues with your engine sludging up....and especially on an air cooled motor....that's a bad thing
-clutch-
I work in the refinery of a borax mine in the middle of the Mojave desert. We have done extensive testing in our reliability department on speed reducers (Gear Boxes) operating in a desert environment 24 hours a day...7 days a week. The plant is almost 100 years old, and some of our equipment is 30 years old or better. Almost every time synthetic turns out to be the answer. We do have a few places where backstops have to engage to prevent a conveyor from rolling backwards when the belt is turned off. In these situations we have to be careful about using a synthetic that has an anti-friction package as it can stop the backstop from engaging. So...in rare instances in industry friction modifiers can cause issues with equipment. As far as the "bearing skate"....when we have an equipment failure there is a tap root analysis performed to determine why...never has it been an issue with bearing skate. I even asked a trebologist (oil scientist) about bearing skate, and was told it was a farce harley invented...when they didn't succeed in boosting oil sales...they decided to start selling synthetic themselves. Now the claim made by them is that their synthetic is specially engineered for "harley engines"....as if they are made out of some special "unicorn horn" that other engines aren't made of.
My 2 cents is for you to go to several new car dealerships and raise the hood on a porche, corvette, turbo Cadillac, and many other high performance engines. Chances are you'll see one thing in common with the big money/high performance engines....they will all say use only mobil1 on the oil filler cap.
-clutch-
P.S. No matter if it's synthetic, or conventional oil you decide upon...use the same brand at every oil change. Switching back and forth between brands can cause issues with your engine sludging up....and especially on an air cooled motor....that's a bad thing
-clutch-
#7
04-19-2010, 10:05 PM
Below is the item description from their website.
Screamin' Eagle® SYN3® Full Synthetic Motorcycle Lubricant - SAE 20W50
TESTED-CERTIFIED for use in Harley-Davidson® engine, primary chaincase and transmission applications, the new Screamin' Eagle® Full SYN3® Synthetic Lubricant makes changing and topping-off fluids a simple, one-product process. Developed with a proprietary three synthetic basestock formula, Screamin' Eagle® SYN3® Lubricant is formulated to provide for long-term protection and engine cleanliness requirements and to provide superior high-temperature protection for high-output engines. SYN3® is formulated to maintain the coefficient of friction for proper clutch operation and to provide the proper lubrication to the primary chain drive. In addition, SYN3® is designed to provide the correct lubricity for the anti-wear requirements of transmission gears and for improved seal protection. This formula is approved by Harley-Davidson® for use in all stages of engine life and is not detrimental to the break-in stage of engines.
</H5>
Screamin' Eagle® SYN3® Full Synthetic Motorcycle Lubricant - SAE 20W50
TESTED-CERTIFIED for use in Harley-Davidson® engine, primary chaincase and transmission applications, the new Screamin' Eagle® Full SYN3® Synthetic Lubricant makes changing and topping-off fluids a simple, one-product process. Developed with a proprietary three synthetic basestock formula, Screamin' Eagle® SYN3® Lubricant is formulated to provide for long-term protection and engine cleanliness requirements and to provide superior high-temperature protection for high-output engines. SYN3® is formulated to maintain the coefficient of friction for proper clutch operation and to provide the proper lubrication to the primary chain drive. In addition, SYN3® is designed to provide the correct lubricity for the anti-wear requirements of transmission gears and for improved seal protection. This formula is approved by Harley-Davidson® for use in all stages of engine life and is not detrimental to the break-in stage of engines.
</H5>
Last edited by skull and bones; 04-19-2010 at 10:08 PM.
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#8
04-19-2010, 10:15 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Really? Never heard that before. Amsoil->Mobile1 is bad? Please elaborate.
#10
04-19-2010, 10:25 PM
I don't believe that changig brands is bad, actually, I believe that it would be good to throw in a different brand now & then. I've been using SYN3 up until last week when I changed to Mobil1 15W50 Synthetic from Walmart. I sleep like a baby at night. (Wake up once an hour crying for a bottle, hehe)