..one more post on OIL
#591
And then there are the sports bikes previously mentioned with performance demands way exceeding your typical HD...and they do just fine with engine oil...
I do not doubt that you are highly knowledgeable in what lubricant your transmissions require for optimum and reliable performance, but can you equally state that all Harley Davidson transmissions need special lubricants with the same certainty?
Last edited by skinman13; 08-21-2014 at 07:13 AM.
#592
Mark, the most compelling argument might be that virtually all Japanese bikes use engine oil to lube the transmission. I ran a built, nitrous-injected Kawasaki for years, with regular dragstrip use, and never had any transmission problems. A buddy set 3 or 4 Maxton Mile records on various turbocharged Japanese bikes (250 to 350-ish horsepower), and these stock transmissions did fine too. Transmission output shaft torque and rear wheel torque on these would have been way over what just about any Harley can produce.
So what's up with Harley and Baker transmissions needing a special high-pressure lube? Are the tolerances and machining not as precise or something? Material quality or heat-treating not as good? Poorer design?
Edit: One of my friend's records was a 220 mph trap speed (from a standing start) on a 1000 cc licensed and legal street bike.
So what's up with Harley and Baker transmissions needing a special high-pressure lube? Are the tolerances and machining not as precise or something? Material quality or heat-treating not as good? Poorer design?
Edit: One of my friend's records was a 220 mph trap speed (from a standing start) on a 1000 cc licensed and legal street bike.
#593
...Ok...fair enough (but it is still a gear mesh, which you have previously stated needed lubricant with special qualities), but how about the aircraft engines with gear reduction for props? That is essentially a one-speed transmission built into a 300+ horsepower 4 cylinder air cooled pancake engines that are specifically designed to deliver torque...are you saying that these are poor designs even though they have been around almost as long as Harleys?
And then there are the sports bikes previously mentioned with performance demands way exceeding your typical HD...and they do just fine with engine oil...
I do not doubt that you are highly knowledgeable in what lubricant your transmissions require for optimum and reliable performance, but can you equally state that all Harley Davidson transmissions need special lubricants with the same certainty?
And then there are the sports bikes previously mentioned with performance demands way exceeding your typical HD...and they do just fine with engine oil...
I do not doubt that you are highly knowledgeable in what lubricant your transmissions require for optimum and reliable performance, but can you equally state that all Harley Davidson transmissions need special lubricants with the same certainty?
#594
A performance 650 engine will spin about twice as fast as a Harley engine. That means that to spin the rear wheel at the same speed, it can go through double the gear reduction, doubling the torque. So the bottom line is that this 650 will produce about the same rear-wheel torque as a stock 1600 cc Harley engine. In a much lighter bike. That's why they're faster. I wouldn't think this should need to be explained to a gearbox man.
However, my friend was running a 1000 cc class, turbocharged, and running up to 30 pounds boost. This would have put crankshaft torque at at least 160 lb-ft (way more than even most highly hotrodded Harley engines), and rear-wheel torque at about 4 times what a stock Harley can generate. Fed through a transmission lubricated with engine oil.
But when you combine torque and rpm like this, you get a measurement called horsepower. That's why horsepower is what's used as an indication of power, rather than torque. Torque alone tells you almost nothing about how fast an engine will move a vehicle. A thousand lb/ft of torque at zero rpm is zero horsepower.
I might be a Harley guy, but at least I don't need to deceive myself (or try to deceive anyone else) to do it.
Last edited by Warp Factor; 08-21-2014 at 11:59 AM.
#595
Absolutely not! You're confusing engine torque with rear-wheel torque.
A performance 650 engine will spin about twice as fast as a Harley engine. That means that to spin the rear wheel at the same speed, it can go through double the gear reduction, doubling the torque. So the bottom line is that this 650 will produce about the same rear-wheel torque as a stock 1600 cc Harley engine. In a much lighter bike. That's why they're faster.
However, my friend was running a 1000 cc class, turbocharged, and running up to 30 pounds boost. This would have put crankshaft torque at at least 160 lb-ft (way more than even most highly hotrodded Harley engines), and rear-wheel torque at about 4 times what a stock Harley can generate.
But when you combine torque and rpm like this, you get a measurement called horsepower. That's why horsepower is what's used as an indication of power, rather than torque. Torque alone tells you almost nothing about how fast an engine will move a vehicle. A thousand lb/ft of torque at zero rpm is zero horsepower.
Really? Really??? You don't already know that Japanese bikes are some of the most long-lasting and reliable around???
I might be a Harley guy, but at least I don't need to deceive myself (or try to deceive anyone else) to do it.
A performance 650 engine will spin about twice as fast as a Harley engine. That means that to spin the rear wheel at the same speed, it can go through double the gear reduction, doubling the torque. So the bottom line is that this 650 will produce about the same rear-wheel torque as a stock 1600 cc Harley engine. In a much lighter bike. That's why they're faster.
However, my friend was running a 1000 cc class, turbocharged, and running up to 30 pounds boost. This would have put crankshaft torque at at least 160 lb-ft (way more than even most highly hotrodded Harley engines), and rear-wheel torque at about 4 times what a stock Harley can generate.
But when you combine torque and rpm like this, you get a measurement called horsepower. That's why horsepower is what's used as an indication of power, rather than torque. Torque alone tells you almost nothing about how fast an engine will move a vehicle. A thousand lb/ft of torque at zero rpm is zero horsepower.
Really? Really??? You don't already know that Japanese bikes are some of the most long-lasting and reliable around???
I might be a Harley guy, but at least I don't need to deceive myself (or try to deceive anyone else) to do it.
#597
Nor do I sell any brand of lubricant. Don't you though?
Last edited by Warp Factor; 08-21-2014 at 12:35 PM.
#598
Like countless megalomaniacs throughout history, I prefer to use sweat from my minions. It's just a shame that it takes so long to get enough for all 3 holes, especially only collecting it from the females.
#599
This is strangely funny.
#600
You do know that Harley Synthetic Oil is not a pure synthetic but a Blend of conventional and synthetic (like Quaker State Blended oils)
Engine oil in the V-Rods is also shared with the transmission with no real failures even with "built" high HP and TQ engines. I am running 154HP and 108 ft/lbs TQ and never had hint trans problems with over 38k miles
Mark, the most compelling argument might be that virtually all Japanese bikes use engine oil to lube the transmission. I ran a built, nitrous-injected Kawasaki for years, with regular dragstrip use, and never had any transmission problems. A buddy set 3 or 4 Maxton Mile records on various turbocharged Japanese bikes (250 to 350-ish horsepower), and these stock transmissions did fine too. Transmission output shaft torque and rear wheel torque on these would have been way over what just about any Harley can produce.
So what's up with Harley and Baker transmissions needing a special high-pressure lube? Are the tolerances and machining not as precise or something? Material quality or heat-treating not as good? Poorer design?
Edit: One of my friend's records was a 220 mph trap speed (from a standing start) on a 1000 cc licensed and legal street bike.
So what's up with Harley and Baker transmissions needing a special high-pressure lube? Are the tolerances and machining not as precise or something? Material quality or heat-treating not as good? Poorer design?
Edit: One of my friend's records was a 220 mph trap speed (from a standing start) on a 1000 cc licensed and legal street bike.