well that's fake news right there. The only person who would say that would be someone who's never actually ridden a stage 3 bike. Stage 3 delivers a flat torque curve across the entire rpm range. There's great power literally everywhere. It's a true twist and go combo from any rpm. I've never even turned my stage 3 egs to 6k, havent really been much passed 5k actually. Never needed to. Whoever put a 447 torque cam in their stage 3 build really shortchanged themselves. They paid for stage 3, but got stage 2 power. I really feel bad for those folks. Terrible idea.

 

I agree on the 6k part, that's a HUGE overstatement, but can definitively say that the SE Stage III doesn't come on as early as the Stage II w/torque cam. My buddy has a SGS with SE447 and he smokes me off the line or when jumping on it at cruising speeds in the lower RPMs. We tried several runs from dead stop thru cruising speeds at 2k - 2.5k RPMs. Dead straight away, neck and neck cruising at 2 - 2.5k RPMs, and going WOT he pulls away hard from my SE Stage III RKS. Once the Stage III hits it's power band (around 4k-4.5k RPMs) it catches up quick, but down low the torque cam Stage II pulls much earlier and leaves the SE Stage III without a problem.

 

I've seen you share your experience, and definitely appreciate your first hand knowledge on this. It does make me wonder if there's maybe something holding your bike back, like a massive shield or maybe the dealer didn't actually dyno tune your bike, they just loaded the canned tune? I find stage 3 experience can be very different depending on the quality of the dealers work and tuning skills.

I do agree that after stage 3 I've had to relearn how to ride the bike again. I do find myself revving it out a little longer than I did on the stock bike, because I never had much more power past 3500 rpm, and now i have power across the entire rpm range to play with. The bike just keeps pulling. Particularly in spirited riding, I feel like when i goose it at 2800, i get to 5000 very quickly, almost need to remember to shift fast enough. The bike is a riot!

Anyway, my main point is that I feel like if both bikes are tuned right and ridden the way they need to be, then there's no way a stage 2 bike would be ahead of a stage 3. But I guess it's possible that for some short rpm range the stage 2 has a short term advantage. I need to find a riding buddy with an m8 stage 2 to find out and confirm. Haha.

Thanks again for sharing your experience. Very interesting.

 

Yeah, I think the Stage III should easily out perform the Stage II and spent a lot of time and money over the winter trying to figure out if there's anything off with my build. Had it Dyno tuned using the SE tuner. Which didn't really make a noticeable difference overall and certainly didn't clear up the exhaust fumes. Added the SE auto-tuner hoping it would help. Which I believe has with the fumes, but not completely. Verdict is still out on any performance gains, but my buddy and I are taking a road trip over the weekend. I'm sure we'll test 'em again as he's curious about the auto-tuner and if it's added any performance gains as well.

 

Well, I can tell you I don't think I've noticed any exhaust fumes on mine, but I'll pay closer attention next time. I think the real lesson for the OP is: if you're going to do stage 3, make sure you're working with a reputable dealer that's done a few of these. If the dealer doesn't include dyno tuning as part of their install process, I would walk away.

I called several dealers when I was looking to do mine, and the dealer that gave me the best quote didn't even own a dyno. They said they would load the map and that I would be good to go. I thanked them for their time and crossed them off my list. Luckily, my local dealer, which was a little more expensive, not much, has a dyno with an experienced operator and so my build turned out great the first time. I am a happy camper, but that's probably due to the fact that I did some homework and worked with a shop that had the tools and the talent to get it done right.

 

Here are the charts according to Harley.


Based on those graphs, it looks like Stage 3 delivers as much or more torque as Stage II with the torque cam at low revs, and builds more power at higher revs. A roll-on contest between them should be really close from 2000 to about 3500 RPM, but after 3500 the Stage 3 should pull away from the Stage II easily.

 

Curios what exhaust and tuner you're running? Who did the dyno?

 

If it's power your after why stay with SE stuff? have you looked into the aftermarket for a bigger set of jugs? I would rather spend a good penny once then a bad penny twice... OP you should look at the end game that you are going for, if it's a warranty issue, wait or sell back the ESP as factory 2 year should be over with a 2017.

 

So it's funny, I wanted the power but didn't want the noise or added expense of a full exhaust system, so I kept the complete factory exhaust setup. The bike sounds louder and angrier anyway, lol, especially when youre goosing it. To keep the warranty intact I had to go with the SE tuner, didn't get the auto tune, and all the work was done by New Orleans HD including dyno.

 

If he's out of warranty that makes sense, but also only if he has a local shop that is good. The outcome of these projects depends a lot on the quality and skills of the installer, so I personally would lean more towards going with the more trustworthy shop. Power with SE stage 3 is great, so unless you're after specific dyno numbers i would just go with whoever is the most reputable shop.