2019 M8 114 Slip-ons, no tuner, no problem
#11
02-25-2019, 06:08 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
For the record I've been running 4" Rineharts and a High flow A/C for two years now without a tune.
It doesn't surge, decel pop, run poorly or anything like they would in years of old when you attempted this. Not saying anyone should run their bike this way (without a tune) but for me, no issues - so far.
That said, I'm about to change the pipes out for the new Street Cannons. I welcome the lower volume. I'm sure it will run great.
It doesn't surge, decel pop, run poorly or anything like they would in years of old when you attempted this. Not saying anyone should run their bike this way (without a tune) but for me, no issues - so far.
That said, I'm about to change the pipes out for the new Street Cannons. I welcome the lower volume. I'm sure it will run great.
The following users liked this post:
mjwebb (02-25-2019)
#12
02-25-2019, 07:20 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
For the record I've been running 4" Rineharts and a High flow A/C for two years now without a tune.
It doesn't surge, decel pop, run poorly or anything like they would in years of old when you attempted this. Not saying anyone should run their bike this way (without a tune) but for me, no issues - so far.
That said, I'm about to change the pipes out for the new Street Cannons. I welcome the lower volume. I'm sure it will run great.
It doesn't surge, decel pop, run poorly or anything like they would in years of old when you attempted this. Not saying anyone should run their bike this way (without a tune) but for me, no issues - so far.
That said, I'm about to change the pipes out for the new Street Cannons. I welcome the lower volume. I'm sure it will run great.
"You must recalibrate the ECM when installing this kit. Failure to properly recalibrate the ECM can result in severe engine damage."
#13
02-25-2019, 07:25 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
that's some real World compelling evidence that "can " is the operative word, and perhaps their way of using scare tactics to make money off their tuners, as well as it legitimately optimizing performance, while legally trying to CYA against warranty claims so likely a combination of the three. probably more of a risk doing engine damage, for example, if you lived and rode thru the Summer in Phoenix as opposed to cooler climates I'm guessing
"You must recalibrate the ECM when installing this kit. Failure to properly recalibrate the ECM can result in severe engine damage."
"You must recalibrate the ECM when installing this kit. Failure to properly recalibrate the ECM can result in severe engine damage."
#16
02-25-2019, 07:44 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
edit: we're going to Tetons, 'Jellystone' and Beartooth in August and no reason to expect it to misbehave since even at Logan Pass in Glacier in July it ran fantastic..been to Tetons and Yellowstone but not BT. wife rode BT with friends on her Sturgis trip and loved it
Last edited by mjwebb; 02-25-2019 at 07:55 PM.
#18
02-26-2019, 02:36 AM
Update
Ok, well I finally got my delivery, albeit a little late.
So, as I've previously mentioned, the 2019 M8-114 seemed quite happy with the MF slip-on mufflers and no other changes.
So with the SE Pro Street Tuner in hand, I made short work of getting it powered up and updated. There are TONS of base calibrations, but I focused on Watercooled twin touring, stage 1. To be honest, there aren't any other choices on these things.
So, as I've previously mentioned, the 2019 M8-114 seemed quite happy with the MF slip-on mufflers and no other changes.
So with the SE Pro Street Tuner in hand, I made short work of getting it powered up and updated. There are TONS of base calibrations, but I focused on Watercooled twin touring, stage 1. To be honest, there aren't any other choices on these things.
Just for grins, I did poke around the various calibrations for other random models and Stages 2-4 and noted how narrow the differences in the table values were. As many have already pointed out elsewhere and unlike aftermarket tuners, the SEPST doesn't allow you to capture and save the stock calibration. Though it looks like I was able to grab all the values and for each table and save them in a spreadsheet for comparison later.
The SEPST does allow you to manually alter each of the table parameters (within VERY narrow limits). The bottom line is that the Stage 1 calibration is pretty much the stock map on my 2019 FLHTK, as far as I can tell there is very little if any difference I can see in the data. This explains why I noticed very little if any detectable difference in performance with the Magna Flow slip-on's. I believe the same is true for any mufflers as long as the stock head pipe remains.
So after flashing my ECM with the Stage 1 base calibration and only the slip-on's, I went for a decent ride and noticed no discernable difference,, it felt pretty much the same. I was thrilled nonetheless since I wasn't really expecting anything other than a pleasing tone, a little more volume, and no negative effects. It ran strong as ever. At this point, I put the tuner into data collection mode and took it for a spin until the buffer was full. That took around 20 minutes. Then after saving that session for analysis later, I was able to keep using the base calibration with no changes.
This is sure wonky compared to other tuners. LOL. Big *** cable and the VCI with the button and flashing led. Press to record, press again to stop. It's just insane that you cannot just plug the VCI in and use a phone app while pulling data. It does work, but it just feels so kludged esp with an enormous USB-1.0 cable to pc connection and the 9-pin serial on the other end. Feels like the 90's again.
Now, I installed the SE Ventilator Air Cleaner. A few observations are in order. First, it's really nicely made. Good heavy chrome backplate, whereas the stock backplate is plastic. Second, the filter media looks a lot like K&N to me. It is reusable after a good cleaning, but having a second helps if you're on the road due to dry time. Third, the stock AC on this 2019 M8 114 FLHTK is pretty dang big! The ventilator is definitely bigger, but the stock unit is stout. I hadn't noticed this yet since the dealer did the 1K and I haven't gotten to tear into things yet. So that explains why after I changed the AC I again felt like the bike was pretty happy. It may have been running lean-ish, but I sure couldn't tell, again running strong as ever.
With another data collection session, I had to call it quits after I merged the session data with the base calibration. I ran out of time, and mother nature prevented me from grabbing a couple more buffer loads of tuning data for now. I will say, after updating the calibration with some real-world data I believe I felt some detectable punch in the mid-range when i jumped on it hard. Also, it sounded really good. Those extra valves slurp up the air with the big breather. Opened up at 3K in 3rd to 4th gear it roared like a beast. Exactly what I wanted. Otherwise, rolling in and out of the throttle was strong as ever.
It's worth noting that the temperature dropped into low 50's and got pretty wet. So I am anxious to get through a few more tuning sessions under different conditions to see if I can really dial it in. I'll report back if I find anything worth sharing, but otherwise, on this model and motor and year, keep your stage 1 performance expectations realistic. You'll get a wee bit more goodness, but the 114 is already strong as heck, and I don't believe you're going to be blown away with any significant rush of new performance.
I'd say the more reputable Dyno charts I've seen in a few places, claiming 5 percent (non-linear) curve improvement is definitely possible with a good tune IMO. Either on the road or on the dyno. At least with THIS engine.
Was it worth it? Heck yeah. Esp the mufflers. More AC surface area is always good on the long road trips too. So, yeah, it was worth it. Even the tuner looks like it will be quite useful. It's too bad the SEPST is such a contraption compared to virtually everybody else's though. It's too bad. OTOH, once tuned properly at stage 1, I'm probably good til my next bike. I can pull most data and DTCs, etc. that I will ever need, so there's that I guess.
Once the warranty is up, perhaps I'll go back to a more flexible tuner with a broader range of options. But I doubt seriously it'll be to get more performance out of this M8 114...why would I? I guess I'm getting old.
Sorry about the subjectivity of this experience. Man, I wish I had a few instruments and a dyno to confirm all this, or not. Things didn't work out exactly as I planned, but I made it work.
Thanks for your feedback. I'll be interested to read about your own experiences with this stuff.
K
The SEPST does allow you to manually alter each of the table parameters (within VERY narrow limits). The bottom line is that the Stage 1 calibration is pretty much the stock map on my 2019 FLHTK, as far as I can tell there is very little if any difference I can see in the data. This explains why I noticed very little if any detectable difference in performance with the Magna Flow slip-on's. I believe the same is true for any mufflers as long as the stock head pipe remains.
So after flashing my ECM with the Stage 1 base calibration and only the slip-on's, I went for a decent ride and noticed no discernable difference,, it felt pretty much the same. I was thrilled nonetheless since I wasn't really expecting anything other than a pleasing tone, a little more volume, and no negative effects. It ran strong as ever. At this point, I put the tuner into data collection mode and took it for a spin until the buffer was full. That took around 20 minutes. Then after saving that session for analysis later, I was able to keep using the base calibration with no changes.
This is sure wonky compared to other tuners. LOL. Big *** cable and the VCI with the button and flashing led. Press to record, press again to stop. It's just insane that you cannot just plug the VCI in and use a phone app while pulling data. It does work, but it just feels so kludged esp with an enormous USB-1.0 cable to pc connection and the 9-pin serial on the other end. Feels like the 90's again.
Now, I installed the SE Ventilator Air Cleaner. A few observations are in order. First, it's really nicely made. Good heavy chrome backplate, whereas the stock backplate is plastic. Second, the filter media looks a lot like K&N to me. It is reusable after a good cleaning, but having a second helps if you're on the road due to dry time. Third, the stock AC on this 2019 M8 114 FLHTK is pretty dang big! The ventilator is definitely bigger, but the stock unit is stout. I hadn't noticed this yet since the dealer did the 1K and I haven't gotten to tear into things yet. So that explains why after I changed the AC I again felt like the bike was pretty happy. It may have been running lean-ish, but I sure couldn't tell, again running strong as ever.
With another data collection session, I had to call it quits after I merged the session data with the base calibration. I ran out of time, and mother nature prevented me from grabbing a couple more buffer loads of tuning data for now. I will say, after updating the calibration with some real-world data I believe I felt some detectable punch in the mid-range when i jumped on it hard. Also, it sounded really good. Those extra valves slurp up the air with the big breather. Opened up at 3K in 3rd to 4th gear it roared like a beast. Exactly what I wanted. Otherwise, rolling in and out of the throttle was strong as ever.
It's worth noting that the temperature dropped into low 50's and got pretty wet. So I am anxious to get through a few more tuning sessions under different conditions to see if I can really dial it in. I'll report back if I find anything worth sharing, but otherwise, on this model and motor and year, keep your stage 1 performance expectations realistic. You'll get a wee bit more goodness, but the 114 is already strong as heck, and I don't believe you're going to be blown away with any significant rush of new performance.
I'd say the more reputable Dyno charts I've seen in a few places, claiming 5 percent (non-linear) curve improvement is definitely possible with a good tune IMO. Either on the road or on the dyno. At least with THIS engine.
Was it worth it? Heck yeah. Esp the mufflers. More AC surface area is always good on the long road trips too. So, yeah, it was worth it. Even the tuner looks like it will be quite useful. It's too bad the SEPST is such a contraption compared to virtually everybody else's though. It's too bad. OTOH, once tuned properly at stage 1, I'm probably good til my next bike. I can pull most data and DTCs, etc. that I will ever need, so there's that I guess.
Once the warranty is up, perhaps I'll go back to a more flexible tuner with a broader range of options. But I doubt seriously it'll be to get more performance out of this M8 114...why would I? I guess I'm getting old.
Sorry about the subjectivity of this experience. Man, I wish I had a few instruments and a dyno to confirm all this, or not. Things didn't work out exactly as I planned, but I made it work.
Thanks for your feedback. I'll be interested to read about your own experiences with this stuff.
K
The following users liked this post:
mjwebb (02-26-2019)
#19
02-26-2019, 08:32 AM
Ultimate HDF Member
Ok, well I finally got my delivery, albeit a little late.
So, as I've previously mentioned, the 2019 M8-114 seemed quite happy with the MF slip-on mufflers and no other changes.
So with the SE Pro Street Tuner in hand, I made short work of getting it powered up and updated. There are TONS of base calibrations, but I focused on Watercooled twin touring, stage 1. To be honest, there aren't any other choices on these things.
So, as I've previously mentioned, the 2019 M8-114 seemed quite happy with the MF slip-on mufflers and no other changes.
So with the SE Pro Street Tuner in hand, I made short work of getting it powered up and updated. There are TONS of base calibrations, but I focused on Watercooled twin touring, stage 1. To be honest, there aren't any other choices on these things.
Just for grins, I did poke around the various calibrations for other random models and Stages 2-4 and noted how narrow the differences in the table values were. As many have already pointed out elsewhere and unlike aftermarket tuners, the SEPST doesn't allow you to capture and save the stock calibration. Though it looks like I was able to grab all the values and for each table and save them in a spreadsheet for comparison later.
The SEPST does allow you to manually alter each of the table parameters (within VERY narrow limits). The bottom line is that the Stage 1 calibration is pretty much the stock map on my 2019 FLHTK, as far as I can tell there is very little if any difference I can see in the data. This explains why I noticed very little if any detectable difference in performance with the Magna Flow slip-on's. I believe the same is true for any mufflers as long as the stock head pipe remains.
So after flashing my ECM with the Stage 1 base calibration and only the slip-on's, I went for a decent ride and noticed no discernable difference,, it felt pretty much the same. I was thrilled nonetheless since I wasn't really expecting anything other than a pleasing tone, a little more volume, and no negative effects. It ran strong as ever. At this point, I put the tuner into data collection mode and took it for a spin until the buffer was full. That took around 20 minutes. Then after saving that session for analysis later, I was able to keep using the base calibration with no changes.
This is sure wonky compared to other tuners. LOL. Big *** cable and the VCI with the button and flashing led. Press to record, press again to stop. It's just insane that you cannot just plug the VCI in and use a phone app while pulling data. It does work, but it just feels so kludged esp with an enormous USB-1.0 cable to pc connection and the 9-pin serial on the other end. Feels like the 90's again.
Now, I installed the SE Ventilator Air Cleaner. A few observations are in order. First, it's really nicely made. Good heavy chrome backplate, whereas the stock backplate is plastic. Second, the filter media looks a lot like K&N to me. It is reusable after a good cleaning, but having a second helps if you're on the road due to dry time. Third, the stock AC on this 2019 M8 114 FLHTK is pretty dang big! The ventilator is definitely bigger, but the stock unit is stout. I hadn't noticed this yet since the dealer did the 1K and I haven't gotten to tear into things yet. So that explains why after I changed the AC I again felt like the bike was pretty happy. It may have been running lean-ish, but I sure couldn't tell, again running strong as ever.
With another data collection session, I had to call it quits after I merged the session data with the base calibration. I ran out of time, and mother nature prevented me from grabbing a couple more buffer loads of tuning data for now. I will say, after updating the calibration with some real-world data I believe I felt some detectable punch in the mid-range when i jumped on it hard. Also, it sounded really good. Those extra valves slurp up the air with the big breather. Opened up at 3K in 3rd to 4th gear it roared like a beast. Exactly what I wanted. Otherwise, rolling in and out of the throttle was strong as ever.
It's worth noting that the temperature dropped into low 50's and got pretty wet. So I am anxious to get through a few more tuning sessions under different conditions to see if I can really dial it in. I'll report back if I find anything worth sharing, but otherwise, on this model and motor and year, keep your stage 1 performance expectations realistic. You'll get a wee bit more goodness, but the 114 is already strong as heck, and I don't believe you're going to be blown away with any significant rush of new performance.
I'd say the more reputable Dyno charts I've seen in a few places, claiming 5 percent (non-linear) curve improvement is definitely possible with a good tune IMO. Either on the road or on the dyno. At least with THIS engine.
Was it worth it? Heck yeah. Esp the mufflers. More AC surface area is always good on the long road trips too. So, yeah, it was worth it. Even the tuner looks like it will be quite useful. It's too bad the SEPST is such a contraption compared to virtually everybody else's though. It's too bad. OTOH, once tuned properly at stage 1, I'm probably good til my next bike. I can pull most data and DTCs, etc. that I will ever need, so there's that I guess.
Once the warranty is up, perhaps I'll go back to a more flexible tuner with a broader range of options. But I doubt seriously it'll be to get more performance out of this M8 114...why would I? I guess I'm getting old.
Sorry about the subjectivity of this experience. Man, I wish I had a few instruments and a dyno to confirm all this, or not. Things didn't work out exactly as I planned, but I made it work.
Thanks for your feedback. I'll be interested to read about your own experiences with this stuff.
K
The SEPST does allow you to manually alter each of the table parameters (within VERY narrow limits). The bottom line is that the Stage 1 calibration is pretty much the stock map on my 2019 FLHTK, as far as I can tell there is very little if any difference I can see in the data. This explains why I noticed very little if any detectable difference in performance with the Magna Flow slip-on's. I believe the same is true for any mufflers as long as the stock head pipe remains.
So after flashing my ECM with the Stage 1 base calibration and only the slip-on's, I went for a decent ride and noticed no discernable difference,, it felt pretty much the same. I was thrilled nonetheless since I wasn't really expecting anything other than a pleasing tone, a little more volume, and no negative effects. It ran strong as ever. At this point, I put the tuner into data collection mode and took it for a spin until the buffer was full. That took around 20 minutes. Then after saving that session for analysis later, I was able to keep using the base calibration with no changes.
This is sure wonky compared to other tuners. LOL. Big *** cable and the VCI with the button and flashing led. Press to record, press again to stop. It's just insane that you cannot just plug the VCI in and use a phone app while pulling data. It does work, but it just feels so kludged esp with an enormous USB-1.0 cable to pc connection and the 9-pin serial on the other end. Feels like the 90's again.
Now, I installed the SE Ventilator Air Cleaner. A few observations are in order. First, it's really nicely made. Good heavy chrome backplate, whereas the stock backplate is plastic. Second, the filter media looks a lot like K&N to me. It is reusable after a good cleaning, but having a second helps if you're on the road due to dry time. Third, the stock AC on this 2019 M8 114 FLHTK is pretty dang big! The ventilator is definitely bigger, but the stock unit is stout. I hadn't noticed this yet since the dealer did the 1K and I haven't gotten to tear into things yet. So that explains why after I changed the AC I again felt like the bike was pretty happy. It may have been running lean-ish, but I sure couldn't tell, again running strong as ever.
With another data collection session, I had to call it quits after I merged the session data with the base calibration. I ran out of time, and mother nature prevented me from grabbing a couple more buffer loads of tuning data for now. I will say, after updating the calibration with some real-world data I believe I felt some detectable punch in the mid-range when i jumped on it hard. Also, it sounded really good. Those extra valves slurp up the air with the big breather. Opened up at 3K in 3rd to 4th gear it roared like a beast. Exactly what I wanted. Otherwise, rolling in and out of the throttle was strong as ever.
It's worth noting that the temperature dropped into low 50's and got pretty wet. So I am anxious to get through a few more tuning sessions under different conditions to see if I can really dial it in. I'll report back if I find anything worth sharing, but otherwise, on this model and motor and year, keep your stage 1 performance expectations realistic. You'll get a wee bit more goodness, but the 114 is already strong as heck, and I don't believe you're going to be blown away with any significant rush of new performance.
I'd say the more reputable Dyno charts I've seen in a few places, claiming 5 percent (non-linear) curve improvement is definitely possible with a good tune IMO. Either on the road or on the dyno. At least with THIS engine.
Was it worth it? Heck yeah. Esp the mufflers. More AC surface area is always good on the long road trips too. So, yeah, it was worth it. Even the tuner looks like it will be quite useful. It's too bad the SEPST is such a contraption compared to virtually everybody else's though. It's too bad. OTOH, once tuned properly at stage 1, I'm probably good til my next bike. I can pull most data and DTCs, etc. that I will ever need, so there's that I guess.
Once the warranty is up, perhaps I'll go back to a more flexible tuner with a broader range of options. But I doubt seriously it'll be to get more performance out of this M8 114...why would I? I guess I'm getting old.
Sorry about the subjectivity of this experience. Man, I wish I had a few instruments and a dyno to confirm all this, or not. Things didn't work out exactly as I planned, but I made it work.
Thanks for your feedback. I'll be interested to read about your own experiences with this stuff.
K
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Erilflynn (02-26-2019)
#20
02-26-2019, 08:42 AM
Road Master