Intermittent Sumping 2018 Road King
#51
09-11-2018, 05:39 AM
Grand HDF Member
I believe there is a correlation of mine being a CVO 114 wet head and the sumping issues. Now for me to replicate it, i ride a stretch of twisty road for 31 miles one way and then back in 100 deg temps. This is on and off the gas fairly hard.I ride it within the designed perimeters but hard enough to get it really hot. It shows signs of sumping at about 45 miles if I am alone and sooner if wife is on the back. Now mind you this has all come up recently and once done, it is progressively getting worse or at least easier to replicate. I had hoped the new oil pump and rockers was enough to fix it but as soon as I got it back and made a ride in 80 degree temps and smelled burning oil, I knew it wasnt. Now lets be honest, I truly hoped the dealers "fix" would be the answer, however the time it sumped before repairs, the motor flat stopped from melting the crank sensor and shutting down. I believe the motor was seriously hurt that time and the pump replacement was a bandaid. I will state again, I hope you don't experience sumping because I have a 35k bike I dont trust more than 200 miles from home.
#52
09-13-2018, 09:05 PM
He was confident that the pump and rockers was the fix. I fell pretty sure the motor was hurt and no matter what they did, the motor was toast.
It's funny, I was riding it the night I got it back and ended up meeting a guy who is Service manager for a different dealer. I tild him about my issues and he was surprised the motor wasnt at least opened up. So..... When it sumped the next day i called him (3rd dealer in 200 miles) and they have it now. hopefully he can get Harley to authorize the opening of the motor. And or a full replacement. I have been meaning to get on the phone with Harley and raise hell. That or have my attorney draft a demand letter that they get it fixed or buy it back. I put a ton of money down on this bike. I will say again, it's sad I have a 2017 SG CVO I paid right at 35k for that I cannot ride for fear of it breaking. Texas has a lemon law so i may start that process.
#53
09-13-2018, 10:48 PM
Road Warrior
They did not install the plate. I even asked them about it as the dealer was talking about how they had a prototype of the plate months ago.
He was confident that the pump and rockers was the fix. I fell pretty sure the motor was hurt and no matter what they did, the motor was toast.
It's funny, I was riding it the night I got it back and ended up meeting a guy who is Service manager for a different dealer. I tild him about my issues and he was surprised the motor wasnt at least opened up. So..... When it sumped the next day i called him (3rd dealer in 200 miles) and they have it now. hopefully he can get Harley to authorize the opening of the motor. And or a full replacement. I have been meaning to get on the phone with Harley and raise hell. That or have my attorney draft a demand letter that they get it fixed or buy it back. I put a ton of money down on this bike. I will say again, it's sad I have a 2017 SG CVO I paid right at 35k for that I cannot ride for fear of it breaking. Texas has a lemon law so i may start that process.
He was confident that the pump and rockers was the fix. I fell pretty sure the motor was hurt and no matter what they did, the motor was toast.
It's funny, I was riding it the night I got it back and ended up meeting a guy who is Service manager for a different dealer. I tild him about my issues and he was surprised the motor wasnt at least opened up. So..... When it sumped the next day i called him (3rd dealer in 200 miles) and they have it now. hopefully he can get Harley to authorize the opening of the motor. And or a full replacement. I have been meaning to get on the phone with Harley and raise hell. That or have my attorney draft a demand letter that they get it fixed or buy it back. I put a ton of money down on this bike. I will say again, it's sad I have a 2017 SG CVO I paid right at 35k for that I cannot ride for fear of it breaking. Texas has a lemon law so i may start that process.
#54
09-16-2018, 10:37 PM
What do you have to do to replicate? What is a brisk ride for you? I am not doubting your issue. But I am in the same boat as Mjwebb. I have put over 14k miles on my 2018, Stage 1 Road King in just 20 days shy of a year.
I have ridden this bike at times harder than I really wanted to in an effort to see if it will fail while under warranty. It takes everything it's been dealt without any issues whatsoever.
Everyone I know with an M8 or have met on the road is as happy as I am. My only experience with these issues are from this site and other internet sources.
It hard to swallow some do / some don't when they all are created equally. If you have a way to replicate your sumping issue please share. I'll gladly try whatever it is....within reason.
I have ridden this bike at times harder than I really wanted to in an effort to see if it will fail while under warranty. It takes everything it's been dealt without any issues whatsoever.
Everyone I know with an M8 or have met on the road is as happy as I am. My only experience with these issues are from this site and other internet sources.
It hard to swallow some do / some don't when they all are created equally. If you have a way to replicate your sumping issue please share. I'll gladly try whatever it is....within reason.
its relatively simple. Take the bike out on an interstate. Ride normally for about 40-50 miles. Turn around and ride back to your starting point without letting the bike idle. Ride at normal highway speeds (70-80) with occasional downshifts and a few double downshifts to pass vehicles. Nothing crazy.
When you get back to you starting point, head for some back roads. Ride another 10-20miles of twisties where you’re doing alot more shifting than on the highway. Try not to stop for idling.
Either stop at your dealer after that ride and ask them to follow SB1450 or do it yourself when you get home. The steps are straightforward. If after you open the Crank Position Sensor you have more than 6 ounces of oil...well then I’m afraid you have just joined the sumper club. If you are doing the check yourself, check your dipstick following the steps in the owner's manual for checking oil level.. If its low and you know it was full when you left... its sumping. If you smell putrid burning oil smell when you open the dipstick...you have a sumper. If you end up sumping more extensively again, you run the risk of crank/rod bearing failure. After that, you’re looking at a failed engine.
If you follow the steps I just outlined, IMO, if you have less than 6 ounces of oil in the crankcase, than its NOT very likely your engine will sump in the future.
Last edited by Heatwave; 09-16-2018 at 10:46 PM.
#55
09-16-2018, 11:21 PM
I second that. When it starts to misbehave keep going instead of shutting it off and saving what you think is the engine. Ride that puppy till it either catches on fire or melts the bearings to the crank. Otherwise you run the risk of them doing a partial tear down and partial fix. You want a brand new crate engine.
#56
09-17-2018, 08:38 AM
Club Member
#57
09-17-2018, 08:52 AM
Road Warrior
Last edited by plasmadaddy; 09-17-2018 at 08:53 AM.
#58
09-17-2018, 09:02 AM
Club Member
#59
09-17-2018, 09:05 AM
#60
09-17-2018, 09:25 AM
I don't know why this has to be associated with an Indian dealer now, the sumping is a legitimate problem, as I have stated in another thread I have a very good friend who's bike is down now because of this and they just brought in a 2018 CVO RG with a stage 4 kit into Smith Brothers HD Friday thats blew up because of this and this is one of major reasons for me personally not buying a new bike at this time.
No I don't have a M8 and not sure I want one but the issue's are real and the dealers are taught to deny the problems as usual. I'll have to say that If I purchased a bike and it did this one time I'd be living on the dealers door step until they fixed my bike, these guys are very tolerant I'll have to say, very tolerant.
No I don't have a M8 and not sure I want one but the issue's are real and the dealers are taught to deny the problems as usual. I'll have to say that If I purchased a bike and it did this one time I'd be living on the dealers door step until they fixed my bike, these guys are very tolerant I'll have to say, very tolerant.