Power Commander V, Possibly Warranty-Safe?
#1
08-09-2018, 03:03 PM
Power Commander V, Possibly Warranty-Safe?
I can get a Power Commander V (PCV) from Fuel Moto with a preloaded map for less than the cost of the SE Pro Street Tuner (SEPST).
Am I correct in assuming that the the PCV is still a piggy-back system that does not overwrite the ECU?
If that is the case, and it is removed/disconnected prior to a dealer visit, I would hope that it would not leave a "digital fingerprint" that the Harley diagnostics can detect (and not void the power-train warranty).
According to the new PCV installation instructions there are just 2 in-line connections to the ECU required.
Older Power Commander installations used to require that the O2 sensors be unplugged for "open loop" operation.
Does this mean that the new PCV operates along with the ECU in a "closed loop" format using the stock narrow band O2 sensors?
Also, I would hope that the PCV maps would not be under the same EPA restrictions as the SEPST Stage Maps, and would therefore be richer where they need to be.
Your comments or corrections to my numerous assumptions would be appreciated!
Am I correct in assuming that the the PCV is still a piggy-back system that does not overwrite the ECU?
If that is the case, and it is removed/disconnected prior to a dealer visit, I would hope that it would not leave a "digital fingerprint" that the Harley diagnostics can detect (and not void the power-train warranty).
According to the new PCV installation instructions there are just 2 in-line connections to the ECU required.
Older Power Commander installations used to require that the O2 sensors be unplugged for "open loop" operation.
Does this mean that the new PCV operates along with the ECU in a "closed loop" format using the stock narrow band O2 sensors?
Also, I would hope that the PCV maps would not be under the same EPA restrictions as the SEPST Stage Maps, and would therefore be richer where they need to be.
Your comments or corrections to my numerous assumptions would be appreciated!
#2
08-09-2018, 05:27 PM
Here is a reply I got from Fuel Moto with regard to many of my questions about the PCV:
The PCV is a piggy back system so everything it does is external to the ECM.
This means that the O2 sensors need to be unplugged or removed. It will have no affect on the bikes ECM.
We have not used a PCV on a M8 bike we have only used the Power Vision.
This means we would be loading the closest map that Dynojet has for your bike into the PCV.
I will recommend the Power Vision for your bike.
It is a flash tuner and the stock O2 sensors stay intact.
It can control 200 parameters versus the two that the PCV can control.
The PV takes a binary copy of the stock mapping and you can load that back into the bike and at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done.
Did you folks notice the underlined section?
That comment would suggest that your Warranty might not be in jeopardy for using a Power Vision, provided that you reverted to your original/stock ECU map and removed the PV from the bike.
However, the phrase "at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done" has me worried.
It would suggest that H-D corporate technicians or service representatives still have ways to detect that a map was written to the ECU even though it may have been removed.
The PCV is a piggy back system so everything it does is external to the ECM.
This means that the O2 sensors need to be unplugged or removed. It will have no affect on the bikes ECM.
We have not used a PCV on a M8 bike we have only used the Power Vision.
This means we would be loading the closest map that Dynojet has for your bike into the PCV.
I will recommend the Power Vision for your bike.
It is a flash tuner and the stock O2 sensors stay intact.
It can control 200 parameters versus the two that the PCV can control.
The PV takes a binary copy of the stock mapping and you can load that back into the bike and at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done.
Did you folks notice the underlined section?
That comment would suggest that your Warranty might not be in jeopardy for using a Power Vision, provided that you reverted to your original/stock ECU map and removed the PV from the bike.
However, the phrase "at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done" has me worried.
It would suggest that H-D corporate technicians or service representatives still have ways to detect that a map was written to the ECU even though it may have been removed.
#3
08-09-2018, 09:21 PM
Keep your bike stock or within the guidelines of the warranty explained in your manual and don’t worry about it. Or do whatever mods you want understanding your powertrain warranty may be out the door and don’t worry about it. Trying to be sneaky about it or smarter than the Moco and trick them.... go for it and worry...
The following users liked this post:
Scudda (08-10-2018)
#4
08-09-2018, 10:07 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Here is a reply I got from Fuel Moto with regard to many of my questions about the PCV:
The PCV is a piggy back system so everything it does is external to the ECM.
This means that the O2 sensors need to be unplugged or removed. It will have no affect on the bikes ECM.
We have not used a PCV on a M8 bike we have only used the Power Vision.
This means we would be loading the closest map that Dynojet has for your bike into the PCV.
I will recommend the Power Vision for your bike.
It is a flash tuner and the stock O2 sensors stay intact.
It can control 200 parameters versus the two that the PCV can control.
The PV takes a binary copy of the stock mapping and you can load that back into the bike and at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done.
Did you folks notice the underlined section?
That comment would suggest that your Warranty might not be in jeopardy for using a Power Vision, provided that you reverted to your original/stock ECU map and removed the PV from the bike.
However, the phrase "at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done" has me worried.
It would suggest that H-D corporate technicians or service representatives still have ways to detect that a map was written to the ECU even though it may have been removed.
The PCV is a piggy back system so everything it does is external to the ECM.
This means that the O2 sensors need to be unplugged or removed. It will have no affect on the bikes ECM.
We have not used a PCV on a M8 bike we have only used the Power Vision.
This means we would be loading the closest map that Dynojet has for your bike into the PCV.
I will recommend the Power Vision for your bike.
It is a flash tuner and the stock O2 sensors stay intact.
It can control 200 parameters versus the two that the PCV can control.
The PV takes a binary copy of the stock mapping and you can load that back into the bike and at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done.
Did you folks notice the underlined section?
That comment would suggest that your Warranty might not be in jeopardy for using a Power Vision, provided that you reverted to your original/stock ECU map and removed the PV from the bike.
However, the phrase "at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done" has me worried.
It would suggest that H-D corporate technicians or service representatives still have ways to detect that a map was written to the ECU even though it may have been removed.
#5
08-09-2018, 10:25 PM
Road Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cranbourne, VIC Australia
Posts: 1,996
Received 416 Likes
on
311 Posts
I can get a Power Commander V (PCV) from Fuel Moto with a preloaded map for less than the cost of the SE Pro Street Tuner (SEPST).
Am I correct in assuming that the the PCV is still a piggy-back system that does not overwrite the ECU?
If that is the case, and it is removed/disconnected prior to a dealer visit, I would hope that it would not leave a "digital fingerprint" that the Harley diagnostics can detect (and not void the power-train warranty).
According to the new PCV installation instructions there are just 2 in-line connections to the ECU required.
Older Power Commander installations used to require that the O2 sensors be unplugged for "open loop" operation.
Does this mean that the new PCV operates along with the ECU in a "closed loop" format using the stock narrow band O2 sensors?
Also, I would hope that the PCV maps would not be under the same EPA restrictions as the SEPST Stage Maps, and would therefore be richer where they need to be.
Your comments or corrections to my numerous assumptions would be appreciated!
Am I correct in assuming that the the PCV is still a piggy-back system that does not overwrite the ECU?
If that is the case, and it is removed/disconnected prior to a dealer visit, I would hope that it would not leave a "digital fingerprint" that the Harley diagnostics can detect (and not void the power-train warranty).
According to the new PCV installation instructions there are just 2 in-line connections to the ECU required.
Older Power Commander installations used to require that the O2 sensors be unplugged for "open loop" operation.
Does this mean that the new PCV operates along with the ECU in a "closed loop" format using the stock narrow band O2 sensors?
Also, I would hope that the PCV maps would not be under the same EPA restrictions as the SEPST Stage Maps, and would therefore be richer where they need to be.
Your comments or corrections to my numerous assumptions would be appreciated!
I didn't realize they were voiding Canadian warranties as well....
#6
08-09-2018, 11:45 PM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
Posts: 22,137
Received 15,795 Likes
on
6,698 Posts
The following users liked this post:
Kyle Moore (05-12-2019)
#7
08-10-2018, 12:28 AM
For the OP, and everyone else who is planning on getting away with using a tuner other than the SE Pro Street Tuner: The Harley-Davidson Motor Company may be a lot of things, but they are not stupid, and they do understand their own ECM programming.
It has been stated, here and on other web sites, by folks with intimate knowledge of the ECM, that there is no tuner that can be used that Milwaukee can't identify.
The following 3 users liked this post by IdahoHacker:
Trending Topics
#8
08-10-2018, 01:39 AM
Grand HDF Member
I think you’re assuming correctly that if the motor fails and corporate gets involved, which they will, they will find the footprint of the PV...so your warranty will basically be intact as long as you don’t need it...
Not worth the risk in my opinion.
Personally I went the SE street tuner route with my Stage 2 and the bike runs flawlessly. The Twin Cams needed serious tuning to run well... these M8s run great. They are much more efficient and don’t require the crazy lean factory tune to pass EPA that the TC did. You might be very happy with the Street Tuner.
Not worth the risk in my opinion.
Personally I went the SE street tuner route with my Stage 2 and the bike runs flawlessly. The Twin Cams needed serious tuning to run well... these M8s run great. They are much more efficient and don’t require the crazy lean factory tune to pass EPA that the TC did. You might be very happy with the Street Tuner.
#9
08-10-2018, 06:02 AM
I think you’re assuming correctly that if the motor fails and corporate gets involved, which they will, they will find the footprint of the PV...so your warranty will basically be intact as long as you don’t need it...
Not worth the risk in my opinion.
Personally I went the SE street tuner route with my Stage 2 and the bike runs flawlessly. The Twin Cams needed serious tuning to run well... these M8s run great. They are much more efficient and don’t require the crazy lean factory tune to pass EPA that the TC did. You might be very happy with the Street Tuner.
Not worth the risk in my opinion.
Personally I went the SE street tuner route with my Stage 2 and the bike runs flawlessly. The Twin Cams needed serious tuning to run well... these M8s run great. They are much more efficient and don’t require the crazy lean factory tune to pass EPA that the TC did. You might be very happy with the Street Tuner.
But at present I am actually quite happy with just Slip-Ons and the stock tune on my 2018 RK. It's just that I have never had a bike before that didn't respond favorably to a fuel manager of some sort, which in my present case, would only make a good bike better. Tuners like the Power Vision just seem so much more attractive than the SEPST when you compare features, ease of use and overall price.
Thanks to the input from this forum it looks like there won't be a high-performance tuner (read: Non Harley Sanctioned/Non-EPA) on my bike until the factory warranty expires...
#10
08-10-2018, 06:04 AM
Seasoned HDF Member