Okay, I see what you're saying -- FuelMoto said it, not DynoJet. I'm not disagreeing, I was just curious if the manufacturer had said it wasn't worth it.

Not interested. I already have the SEPST, and if I get a proper dyno tune, the guy I plan on using has already told me that he won't even bother with the Power Commander for a Harley anymore, as it can't accomplish nearly as much as he could with a Power Vision flash tuner (which is basically what FuelMoto is saying).

The Power Commander has to be accomplishing something; it's been on the market for years and years, and there are many bikes for which you can't even get a Power Vision, the only tuner you can get is the Power Commander. I think it's probably a good product and it does accomplish something, it's just that if you had the choice between a flash tuner (Power Vision) and a piggyback controller (Power Commander) there's no contest, the flash tuner is much more capable.

 

Depends on the 114 you're talking about. I just looked up my bike, 114ci Fat Bob FXFB/S, and there are 7 maps available, including for Rinehart or S&S or Tab slip-ons, or Two Brothers or Rinehart full 2-1 exhaust.

For the touring bikes, the only 114s they list so far are for the CVO or for Stage III-equipped bikes that were originally 107s.

 

I have been looking at the PC V for a different bike I have, one that doesn't have a Power Vision available for it, and it looks like the PC V has advanced some in recent years. On the little bike I'm talking about, the PC-V installation no longer requires removing the O2 sensor, and on top of that it provides control over ignition timing. Seems like it should be capable of making enough changes to make an actual difference, especially if the PC-V for the specific bike you're looking into supports ignition adjustments (not all of the PC-V units do, but for some bikes they have ignition control built into the PC-V).

 

You're 100% correct on the M8 and on other bikes too; I looked up the installation instructions for the M8 bikes and for another bike I have, and it is literally plug 'n' go. On the 2013 BMW I looked up the instructions showed having to splice into a wire, but for the 2019 bikes I looked up that isn't necessary.

 

Since you re-quoted one of my ealier posts I will weigh in here. With the help of this forum I have come to a better understanding of this subject:

You may be confusing the PCV with the PV.

The PCV (Power Commander 5) is a piggy-back system that does not overwrite or affect the ECU. Only the physical presence of a PCV would be a red flag to HD.

The underlined sections you quoted refer to the PV (Power Vision) which does overwrite the ECU and is detectable even if it is last used to rewrite the original file.
So, it is not the ECU file content that concerns HD; they can determine from the ECU access log that an "Illegal" tuner has been used.

 

My question is WHY? For the minimal gain WHY? Is it just to see if it can be done?

 

My invitation for comment on the PCV (asked last August) was before I was aware that it would only provide minimal gain compared to the newer flash tune systems now available.
My questions were based on previous experience with Power Commanders (or similar fuel managers), and they always provided significant improvement on my bikes in the past (without leaving a digital finger print on the ECU).

Perhaps we can now put this issue to bed. I have seen the light and a Power Vision will likely be in my future (post warranty!)

 

OMG, I keep forgetting to check the dates on the OP.
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Well, another thing to consider -- with the Power Commander, you have to buy one for your bike. With the Power Vision, that's not necessarily so. People seem to think they need to buy a Power Vision, but -- many tuning shops are happy to use their own, and just have you buy a license ($199) for your bike. So instead of spending $400-$550 on a Power Commander, you could just go to your favorite tuner and have them buy a license. If you go back to that tuner, any re-tunes won't need an additional license, as far as I know. If you want to go to a different shop, you'd probably have to buy another license, but if you're happy with the shop you choose, then it could be a lot less expensive to get a Power Vision tune if you just do the license thing. Unless you want to own the box for some other reason (like using it as a data monitor or whatever).