Power Commander V, Possibly Warranty-Safe?
#21
02-12-2019, 03:45 PM
#22
02-12-2019, 04:16 PM
Grand HDF Member
The Power Commander is not a flash tuner, so it won't leave any footprint on the ECU. However, the Power Commander V needs to be installed, it needs to be attached to various sensors, which may mean splicing into wires, and that alone could theoretically be a "footprint" that could tip off the warranty police that a Power Commander was used.
If you can remove the PCV and all traces that it was ever installed off the bike, then I would presume that the warranty police would be unable to detect it. I don't know how you remove traces that a wire was spliced into the throttle body wire or whatever else may need to be done when installing a PC-V on any particular bike.
However, it still leaves the question open -- if your bike is running parts that would have required a tuner, and you have no evidence of a tuner, then -- what did you do? If you didn't run a tuner, then you may have damaged the bike by running it inappropriately lean or otherwise out of configuration. Your fault, so no warranty. So removing all trace of the tuner won't necessarily mean that you're "safe" from detection, they may still be able to deduce that you installed parts that either required a warranty-voiding aftermarket tune, or that those parts were the source of damage specifically because you didn't tune the bike properly for them...
If you can remove the PCV and all traces that it was ever installed off the bike, then I would presume that the warranty police would be unable to detect it. I don't know how you remove traces that a wire was spliced into the throttle body wire or whatever else may need to be done when installing a PC-V on any particular bike.
However, it still leaves the question open -- if your bike is running parts that would have required a tuner, and you have no evidence of a tuner, then -- what did you do? If you didn't run a tuner, then you may have damaged the bike by running it inappropriately lean or otherwise out of configuration. Your fault, so no warranty. So removing all trace of the tuner won't necessarily mean that you're "safe" from detection, they may still be able to deduce that you installed parts that either required a warranty-voiding aftermarket tune, or that those parts were the source of damage specifically because you didn't tune the bike properly for them...
#24
02-12-2019, 07:00 PM
Grand HDF Member
#25
02-13-2019, 05:55 AM
Member
#26
02-13-2019, 06:28 AM
Stellar HDF Member
I've answered this before in another similar thread, to you specifically I believe, so I'm not sure why you are resurrecting this post. I actually do have an extended Harley sponsored warranty reaching out to 5 years. I might just bite the bullet in the Spring and complete Stage 1 with an Air Cleaner and SEPST. This may be adequate for the balance of the warranty coverage...if not, I'll get the Power Vision at the end of the 5 years.
But thanks for the response anyway. I appreciate it.
#27
02-13-2019, 06:34 AM
Stellar HDF Member
My thinking on this was leave my 17 RK stock until the factory warranty expired. By then you'd be fairly confident your bike wasn't a lemon then do whatever Stage upgrade you wanted with whatever after market parts you so desire. Thats the way I went and am very confident in this bike likely giving me many trouble free miles.
When you boil it all down, the decision really is do I have enough "stored up" cash to handle an expensive repair that may or may not happen, or do I want the safety peace of mind that a warranty provides if an expensive repair hits at an inappropriate financial time in life.
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SWMB (02-13-2019)
#28
02-13-2019, 08:30 AM
Grand HDF Member
#29
02-13-2019, 08:59 AM
Member
Go back and read post #2
Last edited by Cazador; 02-13-2019 at 09:01 AM.
#30
02-13-2019, 09:34 AM
Here is a reply I got from Fuel Moto with regard to many of my questions about the PCV:
The PCV is a piggy back system so everything it does is external to the ECM.
This means that the O2 sensors need to be unplugged or removed. It will have no affect on the bikes ECM.
We have not used a PCV on a M8 bike we have only used the Power Vision.
This means we would be loading the closest map that Dynojet has for your bike into the PCV.
I will recommend the Power Vision for your bike.
It is a flash tuner and the stock O2 sensors stay intact.
It can control 200 parameters versus the two that the PCV can control.
The PV takes a binary copy of the stock mapping and you can load that back into the bike and at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done.
Did you folks notice the underlined section?
That comment would suggest that your Warranty might not be in jeopardy for using a Power Vision, provided that you reverted to your original/stock ECU map and removed the PV from the bike.
However, the phrase "at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done" has me worried.
It would suggest that H-D corporate technicians or service representatives still have ways to detect that a map was written to the ECU even though it may have been removed.
The PCV is a piggy back system so everything it does is external to the ECM.
This means that the O2 sensors need to be unplugged or removed. It will have no affect on the bikes ECM.
We have not used a PCV on a M8 bike we have only used the Power Vision.
This means we would be loading the closest map that Dynojet has for your bike into the PCV.
I will recommend the Power Vision for your bike.
It is a flash tuner and the stock O2 sensors stay intact.
It can control 200 parameters versus the two that the PCV can control.
The PV takes a binary copy of the stock mapping and you can load that back into the bike and at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done.
Did you folks notice the underlined section?
That comment would suggest that your Warranty might not be in jeopardy for using a Power Vision, provided that you reverted to your original/stock ECU map and removed the PV from the bike.
However, the phrase "at the dealer level they cannot see that this has been done" has me worried.
It would suggest that H-D corporate technicians or service representatives still have ways to detect that a map was written to the ECU even though it may have been removed.
HD can detect the changes. Just because the map file is identical doesn't mean the history of activity will not change.