Time for the 4th engine in my 2017 CVO Limited... here we go again!
#51
05-23-2018, 01:25 PM
Grand HDF Member
#52
05-23-2018, 01:37 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
That's the million-dollar question. We don't know. But he's not the only one. There's another guy here who's gone through three. And on the CVOHarley forum I think there's some guy who's gone through six.
It defies logic. There has to be something specific to these cases that causes this to happen... just has to be. Something different about the particular bike that somehow is affecting sumping (road harmonics? bad oil cooler? Brakes dragging so it's putting unnecessary strain on the engine at all times? I don't know).
The issue also seems related to performance upgrades. Yes, it CAN happen to any M8, but based on the reports we've seen, it seems to happen most to big CVO engines, and to Stage IV. Heatwave had a perfectly running M8 for a while, stock, but once going back to Stage IV it sumped again.
There should be about 250,000 M8s on the road now. Badcooky reported that HD Australia told them that a grand total of 1.2% of bikes had sumped, and that the problem was almost entirely confined to 2017s. We know that it's not exclusive to 2017s. Almost all of the reports are from touring bikes. Most of the reports appear to be from CVO owners, or Stage III/Stage IV owners. So will it happen to all M8s? Theoretically possible, but probable? I wouldn't think so.
For what it's worth, I got concerned enough initially that I put a 4-year Discount ESP warranty on my bike; it was $1000 and kicks in after the factory warranty ends, so six years of coverage. May be a wasted $1000, but then again, maybe not, only time will tell.
It defies logic. There has to be something specific to these cases that causes this to happen... just has to be. Something different about the particular bike that somehow is affecting sumping (road harmonics? bad oil cooler? Brakes dragging so it's putting unnecessary strain on the engine at all times? I don't know).
The issue also seems related to performance upgrades. Yes, it CAN happen to any M8, but based on the reports we've seen, it seems to happen most to big CVO engines, and to Stage IV. Heatwave had a perfectly running M8 for a while, stock, but once going back to Stage IV it sumped again.
There should be about 250,000 M8s on the road now. Badcooky reported that HD Australia told them that a grand total of 1.2% of bikes had sumped, and that the problem was almost entirely confined to 2017s. We know that it's not exclusive to 2017s. Almost all of the reports are from touring bikes. Most of the reports appear to be from CVO owners, or Stage III/Stage IV owners. So will it happen to all M8s? Theoretically possible, but probable? I wouldn't think so.
For what it's worth, I got concerned enough initially that I put a 4-year Discount ESP warranty on my bike; it was $1000 and kicks in after the factory warranty ends, so six years of coverage. May be a wasted $1000, but then again, maybe not, only time will tell.
Dont bash me too hard. lol
#53
05-23-2018, 01:40 PM
#54
05-23-2018, 01:42 PM
Grand HDF Member
Not blaming anyone who's been through multiple motors or the same issues more than once, but I gotta think the common denominator might be riding style? Again not excusing the issues...an owner should be able to push these motors pretty hard if thats how they like to ride, but it makes you wonder.
However, one of the multi-engine guys (I think it was keithhu maybe) said that in every instance of sumping so far, it's come from cruising on the highway. And he's had it happen three times to him.
The following users liked this post:
GPHDXLC (05-23-2018)
#55
05-23-2018, 01:44 PM
Grand HDF Member
Testing out different fixes would only make scientific sense if the rest of the engine stayed the same, but we're talking about entire replacement engines here, and those are failing repeatedly when mounted in one particular bike (and, apparently, predominately CVOs).
Last edited by FatBob2018; 05-23-2018 at 01:46 PM.
#57
05-23-2018, 01:45 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
In general, I would tend to think like that too -- especially since the issues have been acknowledged by Harley to be tied to extended high-RPM operation, and it would seem that someone who sprung for a Stage IV upgrade would be more predisposed to ride at high-RPM than other riders.
However, one of the multi-engine guys (I think it was keithhu maybe) said that in every instance of sumping so far, it's come from cruising on the highway. And he's had it happen three times to him.
However, one of the multi-engine guys (I think it was keithhu maybe) said that in every instance of sumping so far, it's come from cruising on the highway. And he's had it happen three times to him.
I could see someone who LOVES HP cruising at 90mph in 5th gear, therefore rpms in the 4k range.
I'm more or less joking, but there is a correlations, as you said with guys who like power and riding style...usually. One of the guys I ride with loves performance bikes. We dont let him take the lead anymore in our group rides because he likes to try an leave us. lol
#58
05-23-2018, 02:07 PM
Yeah you have a good point. Although, cruising on the highway has different meanings. lol
I could see someone who LOVES HP cruising at 90mph in 5th gear, therefore rpms in the 4k range.
I'm more or less joking, but there is a correlations, as you said with guys who like power and riding style...usually. One of the guys I ride with loves performance bikes. We dont let him take the lead anymore in our group rides because he likes to try an leave us. lol
I could see someone who LOVES HP cruising at 90mph in 5th gear, therefore rpms in the 4k range.
I'm more or less joking, but there is a correlations, as you said with guys who like power and riding style...usually. One of the guys I ride with loves performance bikes. We dont let him take the lead anymore in our group rides because he likes to try an leave us. lol
Perhaps the real correlation is that all of these riders just haven't sumped their engine..... YET. But the day may come, on a long ride, or at altitude under load or riding 2up for the first time with their new bike or just after a long run on the highway and they need to downshift 2 gears running to 5500rpms to pass a truck.... well maybe then they'll find out about sumping. Let's hope for their sake that if it does happen, it's not before their warranty runs out.
#59
05-23-2018, 02:12 PM
Florida Crew Moderator
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Port St Lucie Florida
Posts: 11,396
Received 3,390 Likes
on
1,561 Posts
#60
05-23-2018, 02:24 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Another way to look at the "correlation" is the guys that are "gentle" or novice riders have avoided sumping to date. Maybe these guys don't put alot of miles per year on their bike. Maybe they don't ride continuous from full tank to empty without stopping. Maybe they never shift to the next gear above 3500rpms.
Perhaps the real correlation is that all of these riders just haven't sumped their engine..... YET. But the day may come, on a long ride, or at altitude under load or riding 2up for the first time with their new bike or just after a long run on the highway and they need to downshift 2 gears running to 5500rpms to pass a truck.... well maybe then they'll find out about sumping. Let's hope for their sake that if it does happen, it's not before their warranty runs out.
Perhaps the real correlation is that all of these riders just haven't sumped their engine..... YET. But the day may come, on a long ride, or at altitude under load or riding 2up for the first time with their new bike or just after a long run on the highway and they need to downshift 2 gears running to 5500rpms to pass a truck.... well maybe then they'll find out about sumping. Let's hope for their sake that if it does happen, it's not before their warranty runs out.
I'm kind of in the middle myself. I enjoy my stage 2 upgrades, and by no means do I baby my bike. But I also rarely see roms higher than 4500 for anything other than a here and there fun romp with it.