Time for the 4th engine in my 2017 CVO Limited... here we go again!
#231
On what page of your manual does it say that? Mine clearly states that, " Use of aftermarket performance parts may void all or parts of your limited warranty. See an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer for details".
It actually goes on to say "may" in several other places. We all know in practice that it rarely works out in our favor, but still, there are situations where direct replacement aftermarket parts are condoned due to Mag vs Moss. Not performance parts mind you. Regardless, putting on an aftermarket part does not immediately mean instant warranty voiding, and it's not worded that way in your very clear and easy to read manual...
It actually goes on to say "may" in several other places. We all know in practice that it rarely works out in our favor, but still, there are situations where direct replacement aftermarket parts are condoned due to Mag vs Moss. Not performance parts mind you. Regardless, putting on an aftermarket part does not immediately mean instant warranty voiding, and it's not worded that way in your very clear and easy to read manual...
See pages 228 & 229 of your Owner's Manual. Ask some of the guy's that have had their warranties voided about how forgiving HD has been lately. If you're only dealing with your local dealership, you'll likely have far greater "flexibility" on a warranty claim. But if the Mothership get's involved asking the dealer for pics or a regional dealer rep is involved....well.... things...get "less" flexible.
Last edited by Heatwave; 05-30-2018 at 06:46 PM.
#232
You need to read the warranty language in the back of your Owner's Manual. A non-Harley Davidson part does NOT have to contribute to a failure. The mere fact of installing any non-HD parts or non-epa approved parts on the drivetrain will result in the voiding of your HD factory Drivetrain warranty if HD has knowledge of the non-HD component
Installing a component that is other than a replacement part (such as a high-performance cam that results in the final configuration being non-EPA-compliant) is grounds for voiding the warranty, yes, regardless of whether it causes a failure or not.
That's why I thought it would be interesting to see how Fueling and S&S classify their products. If they are considered direct replacement parts, then there may very well be a good case to say that Harley is not entitled to void the warranty in that case. If instead they consider their pumps to be high-performance, competition-only parts, then installation would definitely void the warranty.
#233
You need to read the warranty language in the back of your Owner's Manual. A non-Harley Davidson part does NOT have to contribute to a failure. The mere fact of installing any non-HD parts or non-epa approved parts on the drivetrain will result in the voiding of your HD factory Drivetrain warranty if HD has knowledge of the non-HD component. And if you bought an ESP, the ESP extended coverage will also be voided if the Factory warranty was voided. The language in your owner's manual is very clear. You can ask several on this forum that have lost their Factory Warranty for lesser reasons.
#234
See pages 228 & 229 of your Owner's Manual.
"other unapproved modifications" means -- modifications. Like installing a trailer hitch. Or race parts. That's why I say -- if S&S or Fueling declare their parts to be compliant replacement parts, then it is not a modification. If they declare their parts to be "race" or "competition" parts, then yes, it would be an unapproved modification and would void the warranty.
As for the "other limitations" section you highlighted, again, please re-read it -- it says that if an aftermarket part causes a failure of a covered part, that repair will not be covered under warranty. Which is exactly what Magnuson Moss says too; the manufacturer is not responsible for repairs if the damage is caused by a part that was made by somebody other than the manufacturer.
If you're using a manufacturer-declared qualified replacement part (or oil or grease or whatever), Harley cannot void your warranty for that. Just like they cannot void your warranty if you have your oil change done at an independent shop rather than at a Harley dealer. Now, if the independent shop screws something up, Harley doesn't have to pay for that. And if the aftermarket part causes something to break, Harley doesn't have to pay for that either. That's understood, and allowed for under M-M.
Last edited by FatBob2018; 05-30-2018 at 07:05 PM.
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#235
I'm saying that it's POSSIBLE that if the Fueling or S&S pumps are declared as manufacturer replacements (and not race parts), then it's POSSIBLE that the warranty could remain intact after they're installed. Obviously Harley has the final say on this.
#236
I am almost certain that your statement here is inaccurate. I've read the warranty thoroughly. I believe the situation you're describing is exactly what the Magnuson Moss act was intended to prevent -- a manufacturer cannot void a warranty if the customer used qualified replacement parts, UNLESS the manufacturer can prove that it was the replacement part that caused the failure.
Installing a component that is other than a replacement part (such as a high-performance cam that results in the final configuration being non-EPA-compliant) is grounds for voiding the warranty, yes, regardless of whether it causes a failure or not.
That's why I thought it would be interesting to see how Fueling and S&S classify their products. If they are considered direct replacement parts, then there may very well be a good case to say that Harley is not entitled to void the warranty in that case. If instead they consider their pumps to be high-performance, competition-only parts, then installation would definitely void the warranty.
Installing a component that is other than a replacement part (such as a high-performance cam that results in the final configuration being non-EPA-compliant) is grounds for voiding the warranty, yes, regardless of whether it causes a failure or not.
That's why I thought it would be interesting to see how Fueling and S&S classify their products. If they are considered direct replacement parts, then there may very well be a good case to say that Harley is not entitled to void the warranty in that case. If instead they consider their pumps to be high-performance, competition-only parts, then installation would definitely void the warranty.
Or how about a few other potential scenarios. A lifter fails, a valve fails, a crank or rod bearing fails, the cam fails or any failure that involves opening the engine. Trust me, if you have installed an aftermarket oil pump, just save yourself the frustration and just pay to have the repairs taken care of because there's no way HD is going to approve the warranty claim for the labor and parts to repair or replace that engine.
Don't make me the bad guy, that's just the reality that folks should fully consider if they decide to go the aftermarket route for engine internals in today's climate. Heck we're seeing guys getting their warranty voided for having a non-epa after market exhaust for crying out loud. Its ridiculous but bike owners need to have their eyes open when they make these changes while their factory warranty is still in play. If we weren't seeing the kinds of engine failures and fluid transfer issues, I would agree its a reasonable gamble. But not with these kinds of known potential catastrophic failures.
Last edited by Heatwave; 05-30-2018 at 07:28 PM.
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#238
Thanks for pointing out the sections that have you concerned. I have read those thoroughly. Okay, now that you've highlighted the pertinent sections, let's just point out that I think my prior post is covered in all of that.
"other unapproved modifications" means -- modifications. Like installing a trailer hitch. Or race parts. That's why I say -- if S&S or Fueling declare their parts to be compliant replacement parts, then it is not a modification. If they declare their parts to be "race" or "competition" parts, then yes, it would be an unapproved modification and would void the warranty.
As for the "other limitations" section you highlighted, again, please re-read it -- it says that if an aftermarket part causes a failure of a covered part, that repair will not be covered under warranty. Which is exactly what Magnuson Moss says too; the manufacturer is not responsible for repairs if the damage is caused by a part that was made by somebody other than the manufacturer.
If you're using a manufacturer-declared qualified replacement part (or oil or grease or whatever), Harley cannot void your warranty for that. Just like they cannot void your warranty if you have your oil change done at an independent shop rather than at a Harley dealer. Now, if the independent shop screws something up, Harley doesn't have to pay for that. And if the aftermarket part causes something to break, Harley doesn't have to pay for that either. That's understood, and allowed for under M-M.
"other unapproved modifications" means -- modifications. Like installing a trailer hitch. Or race parts. That's why I say -- if S&S or Fueling declare their parts to be compliant replacement parts, then it is not a modification. If they declare their parts to be "race" or "competition" parts, then yes, it would be an unapproved modification and would void the warranty.
As for the "other limitations" section you highlighted, again, please re-read it -- it says that if an aftermarket part causes a failure of a covered part, that repair will not be covered under warranty. Which is exactly what Magnuson Moss says too; the manufacturer is not responsible for repairs if the damage is caused by a part that was made by somebody other than the manufacturer.
If you're using a manufacturer-declared qualified replacement part (or oil or grease or whatever), Harley cannot void your warranty for that. Just like they cannot void your warranty if you have your oil change done at an independent shop rather than at a Harley dealer. Now, if the independent shop screws something up, Harley doesn't have to pay for that. And if the aftermarket part causes something to break, Harley doesn't have to pay for that either. That's understood, and allowed for under M-M.
#239
Did it reference if the after-market slip-ons had to be epa-approved to prevent voiding the warranty?
#240
We've had a great run.. Those of us for years modified our engine and Motor Company warrantied them.. I've never had a claim denied under warranty on one of my newer sleds after major change (Woods Cams, Cut out the Cat).. But yet I never dared to modify my Ford w a Bullet Proof Cooler (proven to work) for fear it would void my warranty.. It may suck, but suck it up it is what it is, and can you blame the Motor Company? Maybe we and After Market took advantage of their good faith business. As so did the Motor Company use us and After Market to make their machines better.