Well now, that is REALLY disappointing to hear. I was really hoping you were going to say it was after three hours of continuous 75mph...

My suspicion is that city riding is not the problem. Even though the engine gets really hot in city riding, the generally lower speeds and enforced idle times would theoretically give the pump enough opportunities to flush the crankcase frequently enough that sumping wouldn't occur... and if I'm not mistaken, I don't think we've heard of a single report of around-town sumping, have we?

So maybe you had a head start on getting the engine hot (if there's truth to the notion that the tolerances might loosen up on a hotter engine, thus increasing potential oil accumulation) and then continuous highway riding at higher RPM added enough oil... man, this just doesn't add up to anything good. I can't see a way to get there from here... can't stretch the facts to fit the narrative. I don't know, that's a puzzler. You sure it wasn't really three hours, but it just "felt" like 20 minutes because you were in M8 bliss?

Okay, last question: you're not one of those guys who likes to ride on the freeway in 4th or 5th gear, are you? In other words -- we're talking about ~3,000 RPM here, right? (I mean, that seems obvious, but we did have that guy on here a day or two ago who said he did, so hey, I gotta ask...)

Well... dangit. I mean, you're one of our most valuable data points, but I don't see how you fit in. All the rest of it seems to add up but you seem a tad of an outlier. Maybe the twin-cooled are more susceptible somehow? They don't have an oil cooler, so ... maybe there's something about that design that makes them more susceptible... I don't know. I know we've had a lot of reports from CVOs, but I don't know if we've ever correlated whether they were twin-cooled vs. the oil-cooled...

 

When I'm on the highway, I'm generally going 5-8mph above the speed limit in 6th gear, so 75MPH is not quite 3K rpm? During the trip to/from Sturgis was the fastest constant speed I had on the bike, again, 85-90 in sixth, so thats what, abut 3600 rpm?

The technical bulletin on this issue does say all M8's are susceptible, but maybe thats just covering their butts? I dunno.

 

To make a statement "I guess I’ll never understand some thinking" I think your being a bit harsh.

Ya, if you are Heatwave, getting factory fresh blueprinted engines I might understand why you have tolerated 4 engine replacements. The ignorant part of your statement is that not everyone is getting factory fresh engines when they sump their bikes. Some get sent back on the road AS IS. Ask me how I know that one! Some get an oil pump. some get their engine tore all the way down to the crank and put back together with most the same part that were overheated!! There are at least a dozen other scenarios where the repair was what I would call major surgery on a $20K to $45K BRAND NEW BIKE, that didn't result in a full engine replacement supervised by HD Regional support. Not that I think a full engine replace is the answer either, as bikes can get cosmetic damage being torn apart that far. Ask me how I know that!

So back to the statement. Where I don't think I would swap my oil pump at this moment, it's only because there isn't any data out there yet that says the Fueling pump or S&S is a 100% fix. That said, I don't blame anyone that wants to try and fix this themselves to avoid the downtime or waiting for HD who in my opinion is never going to totally own this issue.

 

On what page of your manual does it say that? Mine clearly states that, " Use of aftermarket performance parts may void all or parts of your limited warranty. See an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer for details".
It actually goes on to say "may" in several other places. We all know in practice that it rarely works out in our favor, but still, there are situations where direct replacement aftermarket parts are condoned due to Mag vs Moss. Not performance parts mind you. Regardless, putting on an aftermarket part does not immediately mean instant warranty voiding, and it's not worded that way in your very clear and easy to read manual...

 

Isnt the MM act for maintenance items like oil and filters and stuff? They cant make you use harley brake fluid and oil for example. Either way good luck heatwave. I feel for you guys who spent money on a new bike and cant ride it. The moco owes you guys.

 

What you read about the fueling pump sumping was likely me.. I had a SnS cased Twincam that would do it.. SnS pump fixed it. VDeuce just installed a Feuling in an 120 ci M8 and it seems to be working, If you ask Fueling they won't guarantee their pump will fix the issue,

I do believe it has to do with the pressure pulses in the crankcase but if you can find a pump that can overcome the issue, wouldn't it be considered a fix?

 

If it were just an oil pump issue, I dont see how ,once the engines to temp, it wouldn't take but a short time for the condition to show up. The sump isn't that big.
Stock 107's dont seem prone too prone to it. Since stock 107s can hit the RPMs that induce it in stage 4, that kinda rules out RPM. The biggest change in stage 4 is displacement.
As others have said, maybe its the larger pistons creating a vacuum in the cases that prevent the scavenge side from pulling oil out?

 

replied to an old post.. Sorry

 

 

I've now got 1200 miles running the Feuling race series pump and plate. Don't overlook that the plate may be a large factor here just as much as the pump. This is on a 2018 120" M8 RGS with SE CNC heads, T-Man cams, HPI, bla bla bla. It hauls much ***. The build mention is just for frame of reference.

This past weekend wife and I rode 450 miles at highway speeds of 80+, up hills, down hills, twisties, 2-up, loaded. High acceleration. Purposeful high load decel, all in 90-95 degree ambient air temp.

Takes whatever I throw at it.

This is a bike that sumped before the installation of the Feuling and now I can't make it sump, subjecting it to much harsher conditions than what initially caused it.

Is it fixed? You tell me....

Look, I see all the points here. I get a guy spending 43K and not wanting to go outside the warranty. I'm in a different position as I have always turned my own wrenches, done my own builds, tuning etc.. I am admittedly not a fan of HD parts, much preferring aftermarket solutions. It's why companies like S&S exist. Their parts are simply better in many cases.

My personal take on all this is that I want to ride my bike with minimized down time and I want to trust it out on the open road, as opposed to waiting on a tow truck and stopping in at Boyscout Harley-Davidson for the "fix" which.... isn't happening. Yet anyway.

So good luck to us all - we are going to need it!