Time for the 4th engine in my 2017 CVO Limited... here we go again!
#171
Yet we have several guys who have sumped their engines in 500 miles or less. These are engines with practically no wear on them yet.
Steve gave me the final clue I needed, that it really is riding style that's causing it to happen. Fortunately for us, riding style is the one thing we have control over, it's the one thing we can change about the situation. I applaud Steve's work and look forward to any more discoveries he may make in this situation.
Steve gave me the final clue I needed, that it really is riding style that's causing it to happen. Fortunately for us, riding style is the one thing we have control over, it's the one thing we can change about the situation. I applaud Steve's work and look forward to any more discoveries he may make in this situation.
#172
I think the MoCo has designed a system that works satisfactorily for (according to Badcooky's HD rep) 98.8% of riders out there, but it is insufficient for 1.2% of the riders out there, and unless there are substantial changes (either an S&S or Fueling pump, or changes to the cases as you suggest) it will never be sufficient for that 1.2%.
But for the 98.8%, there is probably no good reason they can't rack up 100,000 miles or more on their bikes. It all depends on if they operate within the limited tolerances that the M8 design allows.
But for the 98.8%, there is probably no good reason they can't rack up 100,000 miles or more on their bikes. It all depends on if they operate within the limited tolerances that the M8 design allows.
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jd05flhtci (05-29-2018)
#173
I think the MoCo has designed a system that works satisfactorily for (according to Badcooky's HD rep) 98.8% of riders out there, but it is insufficient for 1.2% of the riders out there, and unless there are substantial changes (either an S&S or Fueling pump, or changes to the cases as you suggest) it will never be sufficient for that 1.2%.
But for the 98.8%, there is probably no good reason they can't rack up 100,000 miles or more on their bikes. It all depends on if they operate within the limited tolerances that the M8 design allows.
But for the 98.8%, there is probably no good reason they can't rack up 100,000 miles or more on their bikes. It all depends on if they operate within the limited tolerances that the M8 design allows.
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#174
So he is trying to say the MoCo purposely built bikes for the RUBS and bar hoppers. For some reason i dont believe this or the MoCo would not be in business. Every manufacture strives for 100 percent success rate. We should not have to worry or change our riding style for 20k plus bike to perform
#175
I would recommend that you avoid percentages such as those you stated unless you have some source for the statistic. I do not have any data to suggest HD designed their engine for anything less than 100% of the riders that are out there when the engine is operating within the parameters of their owner's manual. Anything less is a design defect that their design and engineering department would have never intended.
Probably not.
#176
So he is trying to say the MoCo purposely built bikes for the RUBS and bar hoppers. For some reason i dont believe this or the MoCo would not be in business. Every manufacture strives for 100 percent success rate. We should not have to worry or change our riding style for 20k plus bike to perform
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jd05flhtci (05-29-2018)
#177
A quick update. I took the bike out for a "crisp" higher rpm ride up through lots of mountainous (for NW Jersey) roads. 94 degrees outside. The ride was about 60 miles. No highways, just tons of twisties that really gave the bike a workout over 90 mins. This engine is a blast. I was riding to my dealer (the long way) to get new rubber (Michelin Commander IIs) and an oil change (Syn3) before hitting the road to Americade (NY/VT) for probably another 600-800 mile long weekend. I should really know the status of this #4 engine after I return mid next week.
By the time I got to the dealer this afternoon, the engine was definitely HOT and breaking a sweat but still running terrific. I asked the service rep that knows my bike well if he would do the sumping check while it was hot. He said he was as interested to find out as I was. After pulling the CKP sensor, there was 1 or possibly 2 ounces in the engine case. Given how hard I had just run the engine, I was surprised it didn't have more but pleased with the results. Time for new oil, new rubber and another great ride this weekend.
Lots of riding in June. Including Laconia BikeWeek (NH) and a ride through the Alps at the end of June on a guided trip through Germany/Austria to Prague, Czech Republic for the HD 115th Euro Celebration. But that will be on a rented 2018 Ultra Limited. Let's hope my rental doesn't sump!!
By the time I got to the dealer this afternoon, the engine was definitely HOT and breaking a sweat but still running terrific. I asked the service rep that knows my bike well if he would do the sumping check while it was hot. He said he was as interested to find out as I was. After pulling the CKP sensor, there was 1 or possibly 2 ounces in the engine case. Given how hard I had just run the engine, I was surprised it didn't have more but pleased with the results. Time for new oil, new rubber and another great ride this weekend.
Lots of riding in June. Including Laconia BikeWeek (NH) and a ride through the Alps at the end of June on a guided trip through Germany/Austria to Prague, Czech Republic for the HD 115th Euro Celebration. But that will be on a rented 2018 Ultra Limited. Let's hope my rental doesn't sump!!
The following 2 users liked this post by Heatwave:
Eccool (06-17-2018),
Hardcase61 (05-29-2018)
#178
I do not have any data to suggest HD designed their engine for anything less than 100% of the riders that are out there when the engine is operating within the parameters of their owner's manual. Anything less is a design defect that their design and engineering department would have never intended.
This tells me Harley is redefining "normal". Just like they had a service bulletin telling people it's "normal" to burn through a full quart of oil every 1,000 miles (which, IINM, someone said that it's been updated to read one quart per 1,500 miles is now acceptable).
So it's possible that the engineers never intended it to be what it is. Yet, Harley is redefining normal to say "this new standard is normal", potentially regardless of what the engineers intended.
I would certainly consider it a defect. And I would most certainly consider that those who spent the most money (Stage IV upgraders and CVO owners) should be at the most freedom to use their engines to their full potential. Yet, the reality on the ground is, it appears that those who use their engines the hardest, are the ones who get hit most frequently with sumping.
#179
My bike just sumped after a 1/2 hour higher rpm blast on the highway with a hot motor. It has the newest oil pump and next to nothing for leak down 4%. The strange thing was I didn’t notice a loss of power but it was down well over a qt of oil when I check the level as soon as I got home. I started it the next morning and let it idle for a couple of minutes and the oil level was back to normal. Sucks that I’m about to drop close to $1,000 on a Fueling race pump and plate to try to correct a **** poor design.
#180
As to whether the MoCo is in trouble or not, that's a different discussion.