People say Harley’s are priced too high
#211
Amen. Having owned a few Japanese two wheeled technical marvels myself it’s hard to explain why I love Harleys so much more than them. It isn’t just marketing, although I must admit HD has done a masterful job of that. When I wheeled into the Harley dealership on my Goldwing for my first ever Harley test ride I really had no intention of trading. But once I got on that Harley and let out the clutch the first time I just had to have it. Now I’m on my second Harley and love it more every day. Hard to explain really.
#212
And yet... Harley sells more 600cc+ bikes than Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Ducati, Indian, BMW, Husqvarna, Aprilia, Benelli, Moto Guzzi, MV Augusta, and all other makers, COMBINED.
Can't compete? Really?
I'm very familiar with that K1600, the K1600B. I love that damn thing, and want to buy one. To be fair, the 160hp/129tq is flywheel; once it gets to the wheels it's more like 135/110. Still more than any stock Harley, but not a massive gulf. And there's no doubt, the BMW is more technically sophisticated than any Harley. Electronic suspension adjustment, power adjustable windscreen, and on and on. I want one. I am waiting on reviews and a comparison shootout between the new Gold Wing and the K1600B Grand America at some point. And the base model of the K1600B costs only, theoretically, if you could buy it, about $1000 more than the stripped-down Fat Bob that I did buy. I will not argue that the Harley is up there with the BMW in technology, nor in features.
But... for some reason, maybe I'm too stupid, I don't know, I bought another Harley. Because it did something for me that the BMW didn't. And -- that something, seems to be happening for a lot of folks. BMW can't even hardly sell K1600's to BMW customers, fer cryin' out loud; some absurd proportion of BMW sales is RT1200's and GS1200's. The big-dog GS1200A, by itself, is BMW's best-selling model and 15% of all their bikes sold are GS1200A's. I had heard, but cannot verify, that only something like 73 K1600GT's were even being brought into the USA this year. And yet -- the K1600GT will ride the wheels off any Harley.
I mean -- you're not wrong. The BMW is vastly technically superior than any competing Harley at its same price point.
And yet...
BMW sold 13,500 motorcycles in the USA last year. All year. Harley sold 148,000 bikes in the USA last year.
So why aren't people buying the technical marvels at their lower price points? Why will Harley sell more Ultras this weekend, than BMW will probably sell K1600GTL's all year? Must be some reason... let's think... maybe... maybe... people actually DO want that freedom/soul/brand/marketing/lifestyle/whatever that Harley sells, along with their bikes?
Can't compete? Really?
I'm very familiar with that K1600, the K1600B. I love that damn thing, and want to buy one. To be fair, the 160hp/129tq is flywheel; once it gets to the wheels it's more like 135/110. Still more than any stock Harley, but not a massive gulf. And there's no doubt, the BMW is more technically sophisticated than any Harley. Electronic suspension adjustment, power adjustable windscreen, and on and on. I want one. I am waiting on reviews and a comparison shootout between the new Gold Wing and the K1600B Grand America at some point. And the base model of the K1600B costs only, theoretically, if you could buy it, about $1000 more than the stripped-down Fat Bob that I did buy. I will not argue that the Harley is up there with the BMW in technology, nor in features.
But... for some reason, maybe I'm too stupid, I don't know, I bought another Harley. Because it did something for me that the BMW didn't. And -- that something, seems to be happening for a lot of folks. BMW can't even hardly sell K1600's to BMW customers, fer cryin' out loud; some absurd proportion of BMW sales is RT1200's and GS1200's. The big-dog GS1200A, by itself, is BMW's best-selling model and 15% of all their bikes sold are GS1200A's. I had heard, but cannot verify, that only something like 73 K1600GT's were even being brought into the USA this year. And yet -- the K1600GT will ride the wheels off any Harley.
I mean -- you're not wrong. The BMW is vastly technically superior than any competing Harley at its same price point.
And yet...
BMW sold 13,500 motorcycles in the USA last year. All year. Harley sold 148,000 bikes in the USA last year.
So why aren't people buying the technical marvels at their lower price points? Why will Harley sell more Ultras this weekend, than BMW will probably sell K1600GTL's all year? Must be some reason... let's think... maybe... maybe... people actually DO want that freedom/soul/brand/marketing/lifestyle/whatever that Harley sells, along with their bikes?
#213
I think the BMW is ugly. Saddle is too high, bags look like crap....... doesnt do anything for me. The goldwing......... blah. If I didnt buy the Harley, I wouldve bought the Indian. By the way, I wouldnt own a BMW or Mercedes Benz vehicle either. After 60000 miles, you get rid of them because everything starts failing. You can argue that all day long, an Infinity or Lexus is better in every aspect. Forgot Acura, another great vehicle.
#214
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I think the BMW is ugly. Saddle is too high, bags look like crap....... doesnt do anything for me. The goldwing......... blah. If I didnt buy the Harley, I wouldve bought the Indian. By the way, I wouldnt own a BMW or Mercedes Benz vehicle either. After 60000 miles, you get rid of them because everything starts failing. You can argue that all day long, an Infinity or Lexus is better in every aspect. Forgot Acura, another great vehicle.
#215
Of course I was interested or else, as you say, I wouldn't have been there. But I was also looking at some other bikes. Two in particular were a Royal Star Venture and a Stratoliner. I was very close to buying the Stratoliner in fact.
#217
That’s not true about BMW or Mercedes after 60k...and as far as Jap cars as great vehicles...it’s like Harley’s vs Indians...the Harley is recognized as king of the road by most people just because of their image over the years..Indian has really no name recognition to majority of people...when people think of MB the felling is that you drive it because you’ve made it in life...and the BMW is the same to most people...what do you drive??...I’ve had Harley’s since 1971 ...love my Harley wouldn’t even consider any other touring bike..does anyone really worry how expensive my Harley was when riding it..F no!!! We’re a different breed.......
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lp (03-07-2018)
#218
Seriously, what is with that? Every BMW saddle is sky-high. Even the "low" seat is a full four inches higher than the seat height of the Softail lineup. That sky-high seat is the #1 reason I didn't buy the bagger when I first saw it; it's why I decided to wait to check on the Gold Wing, and leaving me in the market for those months is the #1 reason I have a Harley now.
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jd05flhtci (03-07-2018),
TomcatCV62 (03-07-2018)
#219
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During my career in the car business, I was used car mgr at a huge Honda dealership /BMW store for 15 yrs and was always amassed at the resale of both brands..and yes BMW has higher maintenance and ownership cost compared to Honda,but mostly BMW owners have deeper pockets to handle it.....
#220
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Everything runs in cycles..cars,bikes,cloths,houses,stores,etc..Harle y will survive even with those high prices and Indians will never be a threat, look at the Victory longevity ..
Harley even made it out of the AMF days when times were bleak
All the big bikes manufacturers 30 some years ago were kicking the snot out of Harley,.Reagon slapped big tariffs on foreign bikes and Harley has never looked back
Harley even made it out of the AMF days when times were bleak
All the big bikes manufacturers 30 some years ago were kicking the snot out of Harley,.Reagon slapped big tariffs on foreign bikes and Harley has never looked back