Originally Posted by Steve Cole

So what year and model bike do you have?
The fact that you may not ride it in a fashion that makes the problem appear, doesn't mean your bike will not do it, if you own a M8 touring model. Reports coming from all across the USA, Canada and overseas means it is clearly wide spread. Yes, I picked the bike up after the last round of "we have fixed it", with the factory Rep flying in parts for the bike. Rode it back from the dealership and parked it. Check the fluid the next day so it was cold not hot and nothing on the stick. Call the dealership and they said bring it back. The bike was returned for that very reason you mentioned, again. The dealership has been very supportive all the way but there hands are tied by HD. The dealer was instructed by HD to fill the transmission and return it to the customer. Does that sound like a fix or even an attempt to fix it to you? I have refused to have the bike returned to me at this point, and have taken the next steps in the process. I have given HD every chance in the world to take care of this in a proper fashion, they have chosen not to do so. They also have told the dealership to tell the customer it is NORMAL for fluid to transfer and that it will not hurt the transmission. I asked them for the normal amount and where it was in any service manual or owner’s manual. HD said they would be adding it.

I work in this field for a living and I have to say that seeing this happen turns my guts inside out. I have been around HD bikes most of my life and this is not how I hoped I would see the MoCo doing business. Is it a sign of the times, who knows but it sure isn't going to help there sales any and there customer loyalty treating people the way they are. HD's dropping sales maybe reflecting this now too.

Originally Posted by DaddyKnuck

My 2017 Road King has just over 15K miles on it.

The Harley TA does not sound like a fix, it sound's like they were either unaware of the problem, or needed verification from their dealers that it was happening when the correct amount of oil was in the tranny. I posted a few weeks ago that I was surprised that after putting the recommended 28 oz, that I needed to add approximately another 6 oz to bring the level to the top of the "full" area. It has stayed there.

The TA seems to indicate that the transfer of 5 oz in 5K miles is "acceptable" to the manufacturer. Less so to me, but in your case, it should be easy to demonstrate that you are losing more than the 5 oz specified in 5K miles.

If you are losing at the rate you earlier described, a trip of 50 miles should be more than enough to put you 1/2 a pint down. Are you saying that the MoCo has told you that the oil transfer you have described here is normal, and will not harm the transmission?

You have also described running a transmission very low on the dyno and the sounds it makes. It seem's that running a transmission as low as your's would be after a few hundred miles (at the transfer rate you describe) would cause irreparable damage, yet they told you it was normal?

Again, as I said in my original post that you quoted, the fact that many are not experiencing this problem does not make it any less problematic for those that are.

Originally Posted by Steve Cole

First you need to define unaware because HD has known of this issue since Dec. 2017, possibly before that! They denied it to the point of saying it does not happen from then until the TA was issued!

If you read what I've said all along, everything you now bring up has already been done and it has failed time and time again. So to now say to the dealership "add fluid and send it back out" is totally unacceptable! This bike was not the one that I discovered the problem on, that one still has to go back to the dealership after this first one is handled! This bike has had over half of the total miles put on it by HD or the HD dealership in there testing! I did not buy a bike to allow HD to use it as a test case! When it was dropped off this last time, it still had less than 500 miles on it! The dealership knows it, HD knows it, yet here we are.

All of that said, what would you do if you were in the exact same position as I and others are in?

Would you just take it back and keep adding fluid yourself?

Would you continue to defend HD's actions as you are doing now? I doubt it..................

Originally Posted by DaddyKnuck

Since you ask a hypothetical, I'll answer. If I was having the exact same problem, I would demonstrate to them that the fluid transfer was far in excess of their specification and demand that they fix the problem.

It's inconceivable to me that they would just tell me to go away with a "that's normal" statement. If they did, I'd call the MoCo. If they didn't fix the problem, I'd pursue legal options.

My experience with Harley backing up warranty problems has been very good. In one case a dealer refused to fix a leaky trans seal because "I was doing my own service." Harley referred me to another dealer and the problem was addressed promptly.

Is there any other reason beyond "that's normal" that you have been given?

Originally Posted by DaddyKnuck

Since you ask a hypothetical, I'll answer. If I was having the exact same problem, I would demonstrate to them that the fluid transfer was far in excess of their specification and demand that they fix the problem.

It's inconceivable to me that they would just tell me to go away with a "that's normal" statement. If they did, I'd call the MoCo. If they didn't fix the problem, I'd pursue legal options.

My experience with Harley backing up warranty problems has been very good. In one case a dealer refused to fix a leaky trans seal because "I was doing my own service." Harley referred me to another dealer and the problem was addressed promptly.

Is there any other reason beyond "that's normal" that you have been given?

Originally Posted by harleytuner

You do realize what you say you would do in this situation is exactly what Steve Cole is and has done already, don't you? I've spoken with Steve on the phone many times about his issues, i can tell you he has been extremely patient with HD, way more patient than I would have been. i'm quit positive he didn't/doesn't want to take legal action but really, what choice are they leaving him? If HD hasn't know about this issue like you suggest, then all the dealers that have had this issues brought to them (many from forum members) must not have reported it to HD which doesn't make sence. They HAVE TO HAVE known about it. They have been throwing parts at problem bikes since at least the beginning of 2017. My opinion is that the technical bulletin is them laying the foundation to say that the transfer is normal. HD has a history of changing specs on parts that they can't manufacture within certain tolerances. The TC crank shaft comes to mind.

Originally Posted by GPHDXLC

Mr Cole. So after all they have done to your bike, in the end the MoCo just said fill it up and give it back to the customer!!! Wow, that is just wrong. You did say you seen this on other 17s that you had in your shop, if you have had 8 or 12 of them do you know the racial as to how many had the problem and how many didn't. Sorry if you have already said but I'm a little new to this, I didn't pay much attention to this problem for a long time, I'm starting to get it now. Thank you.

Originally Posted by DaddyKnuck

Apparently I am going to have every post I make parsed and argued by each of Steve's acolytes. OK, it's your turn.

You imply a close relationship with him, and say you're positive he doesn't want to pursue legal action. Why not? If he has been as patient as you say, and he is as wronged as he says, legal action seems to be the best recourse.