Transmission fluid transfer service bulletin
#421
11-18-2017, 08:56 AM
Elite HDF Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: People's Republic of Boulder Colorado
Posts: 4,867
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Just to be absolutely clear, I would be considering a hard candy black gold 17 Road Glide, with approx 3k miles that has about a year more or less on the existing factory warranty. It from a private party not a dealer and I have zero concerns about the dealer honoring the warranty. The bike has already been modded with exhaust, tuner, (PV) and stage 1. It's priced accordingly and I would be offering less due to lack of potential warrenty. It's all cash. In addition I have everything but the minor internal pieces for the clutch. I have the cable, the clutch basket, plates, etc. I do not have the clutch rod or the handle bar mount. I've got a trans door as well, so based on my research it appears it's able to be changed however am trying to obtain other real world thoughts before I acquire and take apart.
I may do nothing but still want to know.
I may do nothing but still want to know.
One thing, if it's transferring fluid when you get it and you're able to stop it with your proposed fix, then please post accordingly. That might be a real ray of hope for the folks who are having this problem with their bikes.
Pricey as hell if you have to buy everything from scratch, but better than anything the MoCo has come up with so far, if it works.
Best wishes and good luck,
JP
#422
11-18-2017, 09:01 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Just to be absolutely clear, I would be considering a hard candy black gold 17 Road Glide, with approx 3k miles that has about a year more or less on the existing factory warranty. It from a private party not a dealer and I have zero concerns about the dealer honoring the warranty. The bike has already been modded with exhaust, tuner, (PV) and stage 1. It's priced accordingly and I would be offering less due to lack of potential warrenty. It's all cash. In addition I have everything but the minor internal pieces for the clutch. I have the cable, the clutch basket, plates, etc. I do not have the clutch rod or the handle bar mount. I've got a trans door as well, so based on my research it appears it's able to be changed however am trying to obtain other real world thoughts before I acquire and take apart.
I may do nothing but still want to know.
I may do nothing but still want to know.
"It's priced accordingly and I would be offering less due to lack of potential warrenty."
no offense but that sounds contradictory..you should be very concerned about warranty if that matters since it's been tuned with an aftermarket tuner..dealer can say or try anything they want to to honor it..if it has an engine problem and a warranty claim is filed and the dealer has to have the warranty approved..well, you would need to hope the dealer is willing to bite the bullet on repairs for you when the MOCO denies the warranty work..and if you modify the clutch well, that's a another issue altogether..doesn't sound like something I would care to take the plunge on unless absolutely getting it dirt cheap..might be hard to find advice here by someone who has actually converted the hydraulic clutch to cable
#423
11-18-2017, 09:03 AM
Club Member
Just to be absolutely clear, I would be considering a hard candy black gold 17 Road Glide, with approx 3k miles that has about a year more or less on the existing factory warranty. It from a private party not a dealer and I have zero concerns about the dealer honoring the warranty. The bike has already been modded with exhaust, tuner, (PV) and stage 1. It's priced accordingly and I would be offering less due to lack of potential warrenty. It's all cash. In addition I have everything but the minor internal pieces for the clutch. I have the cable, the clutch basket, plates, etc. I do not have the clutch rod or the handle bar mount. I've got a trans door as well, so based on my research it appears it's able to be changed however am trying to obtain other real world thoughts before I acquire and take apart.
I may do nothing but still want to know.
I may do nothing but still want to know.
#424
11-18-2017, 09:11 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
#425
11-18-2017, 12:58 PM
With 3000 miles on it, check the transmission level. That will tell you whether or not it’s transferring or not. You don’t actually have to change the clutch basket and plates to go with a cable. I think somewhere around the 200 page mark in the “Is anybody having to add transmission oil “ thread I listed all the parts necessary to go to a cable actuated clutch.
I saved that list in "My Documents" on my laptop....... just in case.
#426
11-18-2017, 01:01 PM
Club Member
Parts for Converting from Hydraulic to Cable Clutch Actuation
I posted the parts list as an attachment on page 196 post 1956 of "who's been having to add transmission fluid?". I am posting them here for your convenience. BT stands for BoardTracker. For about the same price you could add a seal to your existing hydraulic setup, but that is as of yet an untested process. Hopefully when you check the transmission it is where it should be. If it is low but still on the stick I would bring it to full and monitor it. Sometimes if the dealer does the service they add 28 oz. like is called for instead of bringing to the full mark. If it is way low and off the stick then you probably have the transfer problem.
Parts for Hydraulic to Cable Conversion
Clutch Control
Qnty Part Number Part Description Price Notes
1 11143 Retaining Ring .90 Dealer Part
1 11179 O-Ring .98 Dealer Part
1 38630-88 Clutch Cable Boot 3.70 BT
1 38738-08 Hand Lever Pivot Pin 9.70 BT
1 38900-08 Pin Clutch, Mech., w/head 5.30 BT
1 45080-08 Clutch Lever Assembly 31.00 BT
1 38700-08A Hand Lever Bracket 17.00 BT
1 37200005 Clutch Cable 97.00 BT
Total 168.74
Transmission Bearings and Covers
3 8873 Ball 5.38 Dealer Part
1 10998 Retaining Ring 1.05 Dealer Part
1 34920-86A Coupling 6.06 BT
1 36805-06 Cover Gasket 4.56 BT
1 37116-06 Clutch Release Cover 112.00 BT
1 37200261 Inner Ramp 4.22 BT
1 37200262 Outer Ramp 3.63 BT
Total 136.90
Clutch Actuator
1 7848W Jamnut .44 BT
1 11096 Retaining Ring .52 Dealer Part
1 37069-90A Oil Slinger Assembly 10.00 BT
1 37090-98A Screw Adjuster 4.43 BT
1 37092-06 Push Rod Release 10.00 BT
1 37312-75 Bearing Pushrod 7.22 Dealer Part
2 37313-80 Bearing Thrust Race 6.76 Dealer Part
1 37903-90 Release Plate 13.00 BT
Total 52.37
Sections Total 358.01
Parts for Hydraulic to Cable Conversion
Clutch Control
Qnty Part Number Part Description Price Notes
1 11143 Retaining Ring .90 Dealer Part
1 11179 O-Ring .98 Dealer Part
1 38630-88 Clutch Cable Boot 3.70 BT
1 38738-08 Hand Lever Pivot Pin 9.70 BT
1 38900-08 Pin Clutch, Mech., w/head 5.30 BT
1 45080-08 Clutch Lever Assembly 31.00 BT
1 38700-08A Hand Lever Bracket 17.00 BT
1 37200005 Clutch Cable 97.00 BT
Total 168.74
Transmission Bearings and Covers
3 8873 Ball 5.38 Dealer Part
1 10998 Retaining Ring 1.05 Dealer Part
1 34920-86A Coupling 6.06 BT
1 36805-06 Cover Gasket 4.56 BT
1 37116-06 Clutch Release Cover 112.00 BT
1 37200261 Inner Ramp 4.22 BT
1 37200262 Outer Ramp 3.63 BT
Total 136.90
Clutch Actuator
1 7848W Jamnut .44 BT
1 11096 Retaining Ring .52 Dealer Part
1 37069-90A Oil Slinger Assembly 10.00 BT
1 37090-98A Screw Adjuster 4.43 BT
1 37092-06 Push Rod Release 10.00 BT
1 37312-75 Bearing Pushrod 7.22 Dealer Part
2 37313-80 Bearing Thrust Race 6.76 Dealer Part
1 37903-90 Release Plate 13.00 BT
Total 52.37
Sections Total 358.01
#427
11-25-2017, 08:44 PM
My 2017 that I got a few weeks ago exhibited indications of transfer at the 1,000 mile service that I personally performed earlier this week. I checked all the oil levels the day I brought the bike home and they were all fine. But when I checked the trans oil level prior to draining at 974 miles, sure enough the trans was a bit low. As for the primary I couldn't visually determine any excess in there but we're only talking a few ounces so that's understandable.
I measured what came out of both the trans and primary and it was hair under 28 oz., & 32 oz., respectively. When refilling, the trans took 31.5 oz. to bring the level right to the full mark and the primary took 30 oz. to the specified level at the pressure plate.
While this indicates that I may have lost 3.5 oz. from the trans and gained 2 oz. in the primary I consider this as an indication only at this point in time. I can't make any absolute conclusions yet being that this was the first oil change and not knowing exactly what was in there from the factory.
The next time I change the oil(s) I'll be in a better position to make a more robust conclusion.
Now just to throw a little bone... I don't know why this is all being attributed to only hydraulic clutch models. The 2011 (cable clutch) that I traded in used transmission oil for much of its life and I never conclusively determined where it was going. No external leaks, yet I would add 6 to 8 oz. of trans oil every 2,000 to 3,000 miles. That bike had 101,322 miles on it when I traded it in and I had this issue for at least the last 60,000 miles. I even had a thread back in 2013 describing my issue... https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...oil-going.html
Anyways, on the old bike I lived with it. On the bright side, I never changed the trans oil over the final 60,000 miles as it always had new oil being cycled through it at the rate of 6-8 oz. every 2,000-3,000 miles.
I hope I'm not going to have to live with it again for the life of the new bike.
I measured what came out of both the trans and primary and it was hair under 28 oz., & 32 oz., respectively. When refilling, the trans took 31.5 oz. to bring the level right to the full mark and the primary took 30 oz. to the specified level at the pressure plate.
While this indicates that I may have lost 3.5 oz. from the trans and gained 2 oz. in the primary I consider this as an indication only at this point in time. I can't make any absolute conclusions yet being that this was the first oil change and not knowing exactly what was in there from the factory.
The next time I change the oil(s) I'll be in a better position to make a more robust conclusion.
Now just to throw a little bone... I don't know why this is all being attributed to only hydraulic clutch models. The 2011 (cable clutch) that I traded in used transmission oil for much of its life and I never conclusively determined where it was going. No external leaks, yet I would add 6 to 8 oz. of trans oil every 2,000 to 3,000 miles. That bike had 101,322 miles on it when I traded it in and I had this issue for at least the last 60,000 miles. I even had a thread back in 2013 describing my issue... https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...oil-going.html
Anyways, on the old bike I lived with it. On the bright side, I never changed the trans oil over the final 60,000 miles as it always had new oil being cycled through it at the rate of 6-8 oz. every 2,000-3,000 miles.
I hope I'm not going to have to live with it again for the life of the new bike.
Any technical information one could hope to acquire or share related to this oil transfer issue would just get lost in the recent bickering of this thread so I think I'll post my update elsewhere.
Thanks Heatwave... Your (paraphrasing) "I know what is best for everyone and anyone doing differently is foolish hands-off approach" sure screwed this thread. Maybe you were a liberal politician in a previous life?
The following users liked this post:
JohnMB (11-27-2017)
#428
11-25-2017, 10:21 PM
A few weeks ago I posted my initial findings of potential oil transfer. I came back today to provide an update as I now have another 2,000 or so miles on the bike but have found that this thread has taken a serious turn for the worse.
Any technical information one could hope to acquire or share related to this oil transfer issue would just get lost in the recent bickering of this thread so I think I'll post my update elsewhere.
Thanks Heatwave... Your (paraphrasing) "I know what is best for everyone and anyone doing differently is foolish hands-off approach" sure screwed this thread. Maybe you were a liberal politician in a previous life?
Any technical information one could hope to acquire or share related to this oil transfer issue would just get lost in the recent bickering of this thread so I think I'll post my update elsewhere.
Thanks Heatwave... Your (paraphrasing) "I know what is best for everyone and anyone doing differently is foolish hands-off approach" sure screwed this thread. Maybe you were a liberal politician in a previous life?
“Adding transmission fluid on your own when you know you have a migration issue and you also know that HD is struggling to fix the issue just seems foolish to me. But that’s just me. Your bike has a factory warranty for reason.”
Still stand by that view unless you’re pretty far from a dealer, in which case keeping the dealer and HD customer service informed of any transmission fluid being added just seems prudent.
Lol on the political statement. About as far from reality as you could possibly imagine.
#429
11-26-2017, 12:02 AM
Rather unfair paraphrasing. Never said anything close to that. Here’s the actual quote I think you’re paraphrasing.
“Adding transmission fluid on your own when you know you have a migration issue and you also know that HD is struggling to fix the issue just seems foolish to me. But that’s just me. Your bike has a factory warranty for reason.”
Still stand by that view unless you’re pretty far from a dealer, in which case keeping the dealer and HD customer service informed of any transmission fluid being added just seems prudent.
Lol on the political statement. About as far from reality as you could possibly imagine.
“Adding transmission fluid on your own when you know you have a migration issue and you also know that HD is struggling to fix the issue just seems foolish to me. But that’s just me. Your bike has a factory warranty for reason.”
Still stand by that view unless you’re pretty far from a dealer, in which case keeping the dealer and HD customer service informed of any transmission fluid being added just seems prudent.
Lol on the political statement. About as far from reality as you could possibly imagine.
It's quite obvious though that there are differing opinions how a person experiencing this transfer can choose to address it.
For me personally, my transfer is nowhere near as significant as some other's have stated, but nonetheless, I will be monitoring it, characterizing it, documenting it, and if I deem necessary fixing it myself. And in the meantime if HD comes up with an official fix at a reasonable cost I'll probably buy the parts and do it myself anyway.
#430
11-26-2017, 07:57 AM
Road Warrior
You guys are giving Heatwave a lot of crap, but all he is trying to say is if you keep adding trans fluid on your own and it’s not leaking or burning off, where it going? Also with no dealer proof do you really think they will back you if something happens to the primary due to it being over filled? All records need to be verified by the dealer, so if you do have any warranty claims they can’t look at their documented service records and state that the trans level was full when they had the bike. Obviously those that will take long trips may not have a choice.
I agree this sucks to hear especially since I bought before I heard of the issue. I bought an anniversary addition that I hope to ride till I die not before the bike dies! So now I will keep it stock for 2 years, and with only 700 miles the transmission fluid is still at the same level when I purchased the bike. One would think that Harley would take a few test bikes off the line and try to replicate this issue rather than waiting for more of us to be Ginny pigs. I also wonder if using a different fluid makes this worse causing damage if there is transfer occurring? Seems odd the owners manual only officially states the type of oil the bike is filled with from the factory. Any CVO’s filled with Syn3 in all 3 holes having this issue?
I agree this sucks to hear especially since I bought before I heard of the issue. I bought an anniversary addition that I hope to ride till I die not before the bike dies! So now I will keep it stock for 2 years, and with only 700 miles the transmission fluid is still at the same level when I purchased the bike. One would think that Harley would take a few test bikes off the line and try to replicate this issue rather than waiting for more of us to be Ginny pigs. I also wonder if using a different fluid makes this worse causing damage if there is transfer occurring? Seems odd the owners manual only officially states the type of oil the bike is filled with from the factory. Any CVO’s filled with Syn3 in all 3 holes having this issue?