Yep, the slinger would be present in a cable driven clutch setup. I'd have no problem if they are willing to retrofit to a cable clutch, in fact I'd prefer it, but the MOCO will try to cheap out as much as possible.

 

This has already been proven to be incorrect by a few forum member as it did not solve the issue. You can read about it, if you spend the time. Now MoCo is telling people transfer is normal and to bring bikes back for level check every 500 miles. Total crap in my book!

 

Any softail transferring oil? I haven’t heard.............

 

My 2017 that I got a few weeks ago exhibited indications of transfer at the 1,000 mile service that I personally performed earlier this week. I checked all the oil levels the day I brought the bike home and they were all fine. But when I checked the trans oil level prior to draining at 974 miles, sure enough the trans was a bit low. As for the primary I couldn't visually determine any excess in there but we're only talking a few ounces so that's understandable.

I measured what came out of both the trans and primary and it was hair under 28 oz., & 32 oz., respectively. When refilling, the trans took 31.5 oz. to bring the level right to the full mark and the primary took 30 oz. to the specified level at the pressure plate.

While this indicates that I may have lost 3.5 oz. from the trans and gained 2 oz. in the primary I consider this as an indication only at this point in time. I can't make any absolute conclusions yet being that this was the first oil change and not knowing exactly what was in there from the factory.

The next time I change the oil(s) I'll be in a better position to make a more robust conclusion.

Now just to throw a little bone... I don't know why this is all being attributed to only hydraulic clutch models. The 2011 (cable clutch) that I traded in used transmission oil for much of its life and I never conclusively determined where it was going. No external leaks, yet I would add 6 to 8 oz. of trans oil every 2,000 to 3,000 miles. That bike had 101,322 miles on it when I traded it in and I had this issue for at least the last 60,000 miles. I even had a thread back in 2013 describing my issue... https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...oil-going.html

Anyways, on the old bike I lived with it. On the bright side, I never changed the trans oil over the final 60,000 miles as it always had new oil being cycled through it at the rate of 6-8 oz. every 2,000-3,000 miles.

I hope I'm not going to have to live with it again for the life of the new bike.

 

Thanks for the write up. Very interesting. Interested in your next service and or any checks in between.

 

Good question. If a huge majority of the M8s are transferring then I think the MoCo would want to dissect one that isn't right along side one that is.

Actually, there's no guarantee that all the parts going into the engine are made at the same place. Small parts like washers and common nuts and bolts are frequently bought off site and shipped into the assembly line.

Also - and I wrote about this in another thread - and it's just an example of something that happened on another assembly line - a lot of parts are cut and shaped by computerized CNC machines. These machines are programmed to make very precise cuts and dimensions automatically and very quickly.

Well, like every other machine that cuts metal they use cutting bits of various shapes and sizes. Those cutting bits wear down over time. So if you keep using a bit to drill a very small hole eventually the bit will wear down and the hole you think you're drilling gets smaller and smaller. Assembly line engineers get wear data from the CNC bit manufacturers and design replacement intervals into their assembly line procedures.

But what happens when a bit, or a group of bits bought from a third party, start wearing down a lot faster than projected? If your QA is robust enough you catch the errors, replace your CNC bits faster than planned, throw out some parts and then keep producing a quality product. But if your QA procedures miss the bad cuts then those parts make it to the assembly line and some of your finished product is going to have some errors.

I'm not suggesting this is whats happening on the M8 assembly line - its just an example of a problem that actually happened on a different assembly line.

 

Much like the story of Ford/Mazda transmissions back in the 80s or 90s. Same exact transmission produced stateside by Ford and in Japan by Mazda. When Ford was having a high failure rate of this particular transmission they found that a disproportionate number of the failures occurred to the Ford manufactured units while the Mazda manufactured units performed as expected.

During their failure analysis it was discovered that the percentage of the allowable tolerances used during machining operations was much higher on the Ford units vs. the Mazda units. While both met the engineering requirements, the precision of the Mazda units resulted in less failures.

Goes to show how process control and attention to detail during manufacturing plays a significant role in product quality.

I don't remember the exact numbers or many of the details, but this Ford/Mazda experience was a well publicized case study in the manufacturing world in its day. It may very well still be used today.

Harley's turnaround and quality improvements from the AMF days was also a well respected case study in the manufacturing world.

 

I tend to agree with your analysis. Steve Cole says he hasn’t dynoed one yet that doesn’t transfer, but there’s quite a few on this forum that have run their bikes hard without transfer. I would imagine the problem the MOCO is having is figuring out what specific anomaly(s) is/are causing the problem. Rather than worry about that I would try to find why transfer occurs (not the cause, but the mechanism) and counteract it.

 

This oil transfer is the situation I was trying to avoid by waiting to buy a late year model 2017. (mine is a June)
I thought by then, Harley would have had the problem identified and a fix in place so the '18s would be OK.

I see now that is NOT the case.

Some '18s are in another thread I started.

 

Hey, that's normal, they all do that. So sayeth the Almighty MoCo (now). Sounds to me like they're sayin' you'll just have to live with it - again!