who's been having to add transmission fluid?
#1962
10-15-2017, 01:04 PM
Club Member
Oh, I see the light now! You need to get hold of Harley’s engineering department immediately and let them know you solved the transfer problem for them. I’m sure they’ll be delighted!
#1963
10-15-2017, 02:27 PM
In the meantime while waiting on an official fix there is one thing that those with the issue may be able to do. In the auto business when something like this comes up the team charts commonality between the vehicles with the issue. So, what things do all of you experiencing this issue have in common?
- all bone stock? Stage I, II, or III?
- air cooled, twin cooled?
- ride easy, ride fast, ride like you stole it?
- hilly countryside, flat, city riding, mostly highway?
Not that this will fix anything but it may lead to a clue as to the root cause.
- all bone stock? Stage I, II, or III?
- air cooled, twin cooled?
- ride easy, ride fast, ride like you stole it?
- hilly countryside, flat, city riding, mostly highway?
Not that this will fix anything but it may lead to a clue as to the root cause.
#1964
10-15-2017, 06:26 PM
I finally found a PDF parts catalog online and it does not show or list any oil seal(s) for the clutch-release push rod.
Well, there's yer problem right there, just as I suspected.
When the bike warms up, the air & oil in the (un-vented) primary expands and forces air down the non-sealed clutch release push rod passage & into the tranny and out the tranny vent. When the bike cools down, the air and oil in the primary contract, forming a slightly negative pressure, and that sucks tranny fluid back down the push rod passage and into the primary along with a little gravity-assist with the bike on the kick stand. When the bike's on the kick stand, the tranny-end of the push rod is still submerged in oil.
That's what's goin' on.
Well, there's yer problem right there, just as I suspected.
When the bike warms up, the air & oil in the (un-vented) primary expands and forces air down the non-sealed clutch release push rod passage & into the tranny and out the tranny vent. When the bike cools down, the air and oil in the primary contract, forming a slightly negative pressure, and that sucks tranny fluid back down the push rod passage and into the primary along with a little gravity-assist with the bike on the kick stand. When the bike's on the kick stand, the tranny-end of the push rod is still submerged in oil.
That's what's goin' on.
#1966
10-16-2017, 03:19 AM
Road Captain
Really can't be a differential fluid level in the transmission problem...how would that explain them transferring the lube when almost empty? Both on the dyno short term and longer when ridden?
Drain the fluid level source near the clutch pushrod opening so it doesn't have something to transfer.
Drain the fluid level source near the clutch pushrod opening so it doesn't have something to transfer.
#1967
10-16-2017, 07:54 AM
Road Captain
Nope- transfer has been shown to most rapidly happen with > 4000 RPM operation, nothing transfers when the bike is on the sidestand. Fluid level, when full, is at least 1/2" below the push rod opening, when on the side stand. Upright and level, @ low RPM, it's churning to almost the pushrod opening. At high RPM, the churning from the gearset causes the fluid to be pushed above the opening, starting the transfer. Longer you are at high RPM, more fluid transfers.
#1968
10-16-2017, 08:56 AM
Club Member
Ok so how does this work, Saturday, 100miles 2up, motorway 30 miles rpm below 3000, no migration, 70 miles average speed 30/40 mph average rpm 2500, migration down from full to half way, I went no where near 4000 rpm and most of my speed and rpm was low, it’s driving me mad, it goes against what everyone else is reporting, the bikes a 2017 SGS, only 7 months old with 3200 miles on the clock.......
#1969
10-16-2017, 09:12 AM
Mine was fine until between 3,000 and 5,000 miles then the Xmsn level went from near full to just under half way (it went into the primary). During the 5,000 mile service I replaced the Xmsn Cover gasket with one I enlarged the hole on like someone showed on the other forum. 4,500 miles later (no change in driving habits) and Xmsn level has not moved from just under half way mark. I have filed complaints with NHTSA, BBB, and Harley. My dealer knows about it too but I told them until Harley knows what is going on and can articulate it then there is nothing they can do for me.
#1970
10-16-2017, 09:25 AM
Ok so how does this work, Saturday, 100miles 2up, motorway 30 miles rpm below 3000, no migration, 70 miles average speed 30/40 mph average rpm 2500, migration down from full to half way, I went no where near 4000 rpm and most of my speed and rpm was low, it’s driving me mad, it goes against what everyone else is reporting, the bikes a 2017 SGS, only 7 months old with 3200 miles on the clock.......
If you're dropping to 1/2 way on the stick, that's approximately 1/2 a cup- more transfer than some, less than some.
Maybe opening up the hole around the mainshaft would reduce the transfer?
Last edited by rigidthumper; 07-20-2024 at 09:33 AM.