who's been having to add transmission fluid?
#131
06-11-2017, 02:00 PM
HD EFI Guru
Steve really hits the nail on the head here. It's really all about how much load you are putting on the bike. I ride two up all the time. I am 250 lbs and the wife is 140 lbs. We mostly ride on the mountains/hills and country road. The average load on my bike is going to be a little higher than most, which is probably why I am seeing higher levels of transfer.
Right now I currently have 2500 miles on my M8. I wasn't paying attention at first but after seeing this HDforum post(thank you MJWebb), I started watching the tranny levels. After having to add twice in the 2500 miles, I decided to drain the primary. With the bike upright, I started taking the derby cover off and immediately oil started gushing out (with the plug still in). All my fears of what I had been reading suddenly hit me. This is real. At this point I turned it into a bit of a science experiment and measured everything that came out of the primary. I ended up having 48 oz of oil in the primary. Spec is 34 dry.
From here I think all we can do is inform everyone we know who has an M8 to monitor their transmission level. Even if they are getting ready to take it in for a 1k or 5k within a few hundred miles, check your transmission level. I personally think the 1k and 5k are "masking" why we haven't heard more about this. Customers just aren't checking their levels or monitoring this to the degree we have. They bring it in to the dealer and the dealer dumps all three holes. Level doesn't get checked until they fill them back up. Not saying this is right or wrong, but when the bike comes in running great, there is little reason for the dealer to monitor what comes out of the primary or tranny.
If you end up seeing your tranny go low a time or two, dump the primary and measure what comes out. Shouldn't be much more than 32-36 oz. Then notify your dealer. HD isn't going to rush out a fix if dealers aren't seeing the problem.
Right now I currently have 2500 miles on my M8. I wasn't paying attention at first but after seeing this HDforum post(thank you MJWebb), I started watching the tranny levels. After having to add twice in the 2500 miles, I decided to drain the primary. With the bike upright, I started taking the derby cover off and immediately oil started gushing out (with the plug still in). All my fears of what I had been reading suddenly hit me. This is real. At this point I turned it into a bit of a science experiment and measured everything that came out of the primary. I ended up having 48 oz of oil in the primary. Spec is 34 dry.
From here I think all we can do is inform everyone we know who has an M8 to monitor their transmission level. Even if they are getting ready to take it in for a 1k or 5k within a few hundred miles, check your transmission level. I personally think the 1k and 5k are "masking" why we haven't heard more about this. Customers just aren't checking their levels or monitoring this to the degree we have. They bring it in to the dealer and the dealer dumps all three holes. Level doesn't get checked until they fill them back up. Not saying this is right or wrong, but when the bike comes in running great, there is little reason for the dealer to monitor what comes out of the primary or tranny.
If you end up seeing your tranny go low a time or two, dump the primary and measure what comes out. Shouldn't be much more than 32-36 oz. Then notify your dealer. HD isn't going to rush out a fix if dealers aren't seeing the problem.
The following 4 users liked this post by Steve Cole:
#132
06-11-2017, 02:15 PM
Just think about what the dealer has to do with a service and it's simple to see why they are not catching it. Once the bike is up on a rack and you know what you have to do, it is very simple to reach under the bike and remove all three drain plugs and let them ALL drain. This is how I do it, too. I take a look at the magnets and if that looks OK, then after doing other work around the bike I put the drain plugs back in and refill. Since all the fluid is sitting in one drain pan who knows where it came from and without a complaint there is no reason to look. On a cable operated clutch you had to remove the derby cover to inspect the adjustment but with Hydraulic you do not even remove the derby other than to do the refill. If you alrady drained it you would never see the issue.
Last edited by Macrunner; 06-11-2017 at 02:54 PM.
#133
06-11-2017, 02:41 PM
This seems to be another of those some may experience it and others do not. After returning from a 3000 mile trip I heard about it. Check everything and found no issues. I have checked it a few times. Found no migration. Yet.
I remove my primary cover before I pull the drain plug , just old habit I guess , just away of check to ensure it had not lost any.
I remove my primary cover before I pull the drain plug , just old habit I guess , just away of check to ensure it had not lost any.
#134
06-11-2017, 03:34 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Just think about what the dealer has to do with a service and it's simple to see why they are not catching it. Once the bike is up on a rack and you know what you have to do, it is very simple to reach under the bike and remove all three drain plugs and let them ALL drain. This is how I do it, too. I take a look at the magnets and if that looks OK, then after doing other work around the bike I put the drain plugs back in and refill. Since all the fluid is sitting in one drain pan who knows where it came from and without a complaint there is no reason to look. On a cable operated clutch you had to remove the derby cover to inspect the adjustment but with Hydraulic you do not even remove the derby other than to do the refill. If you alrady drained it you would never see the issue.
That's my bet as to why they didn't see the issue on initial testing.. They may have also had short oil change schedules to look for debris..
#137
06-12-2017, 10:11 AM
What some are saying here is that the problem exists but that the dealers are not seeing it because of the way they traditionally dump all the fluids when a customer brings the bike in for service. They do not check the fluid levels in any of the 3 holes before them dump them. Typically they just pull the plugs in the bottom and drain all 3 fluids at the same time.
If they checked the fluid level in the primary before dumping it they would see if there was too much fluid in there. If they checked the fluid in the transmission they might see where there is not enough fluid. Then they would have to mentally connect the dots and come to the conclusion that fluid is migrating from the transmission to the primary case. Right now the dealers are not aware of migration because they are not looking for migration. People who change their own fluids at home at more likely to pick up on this than a dealer would. Until dealers start complaining to the MOCO about this phenomenon occurring the MOCO will not look into it. Right now they just say that it is "just some of the crazy **** that riders come up with".
#138
06-12-2017, 10:15 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
#139
06-12-2017, 10:17 AM
surely there are thousands that have the dealer do the service, ride hard and don't check the trans and at some point a tranny will toast, at which point the dealership will notice the low trans fluid as the culprit, in which case the owner will say.."well, you're the ones who did the service", which will start the ball rolling..this is the chain of events I see as the likely scenario problems will have been reported, warranty investigations will occur and the MOCO will determine the root cause only after seeing a pattern/trend of failures..the fact that this all hasn't come to fruition yet is 'somewhat' surprising..but in a good way..not hearing of transmission failures anyway
Last edited by mjwebb; 06-12-2017 at 10:22 AM.
#140
06-12-2017, 11:45 AM
surely there are thousands that have the dealer do the service, ride hard and don't check the trans and at some point a tranny will toast, at which point the dealership will notice the low trans fluid as the culprit, in which case the owner will say.."well, you're the ones who did the service", which will start the ball rolling..this is the chain of events I see as the likely scenario problems will have been reported, warranty investigations will occur and the MOCO will determine the root cause only after seeing a pattern/trend of failures..the fact that this all hasn't come to fruition yet is 'somewhat' surprising..but in a good way..not hearing of transmission failures anyway
On a side note, how many miles do you have on your M8? Have you dumped your primary and measured how much has transferred? I transferred 14 oz in 2500 miles. I am curious what your transfer rate was?