M8 advanced oil cooler system
#51
10-15-2016, 09:03 PM
#52
10-17-2016, 07:17 PM
HD EFI Guru
I for one have not been running synthetic oils as I do not care for them in an air cooled engine. The low oil pressure HD has run in the past and how thin the synthetic oil is, has just dropped them to zero pressure at idle and that is no good for lifters. With the M8 the oil pressure is higher so I hope it will be fine in them and with the oil temperatures we are measuring when testing on road I feel it's a must, at least for the oil cooled version.
#53
10-18-2016, 12:26 PM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
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I agree it is better to run synthetic in these new engines. Regarding synthetic being thinner, nope. If two oils have the same viscosity and one is synthetic and the other conventional, one will not be thinner than the other.
The reason synthetics are perceived as being thinner is they are more homogeneous. That means uniform consistency for those of you in Rio Linda. Conventional oils may have some of it a little thicker and some of it a little thinner, but but still measures the same viscosity due to what amounts to averaging.
The reason synthetics are perceived as being thinner is they are more homogeneous. That means uniform consistency for those of you in Rio Linda. Conventional oils may have some of it a little thicker and some of it a little thinner, but but still measures the same viscosity due to what amounts to averaging.
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ocezam (11-06-2016)
#54
10-20-2016, 02:41 PM
HD EFI Guru
The weather has warmed back up to the same as the first round of testing. Now the bike is equipped with full instrumentation and recording of the ECM data along with the Front Cylinder Head temperature, Rear Cylinder Head temperature, Oil Sump temperature and Head Oil Return temperature. I saw slightly less Measured Engine temperature on this ride than I did in the first testing, 351 F the first time and 340 F this time. The ride was in-town running posted speed limits with light to no traffic, for about 18 miles.
Conditions:
Ambient temperature during testing upper 70's
In Town riding with little traffic but normal stop lights
Speed limited to posted speed limits (35 - 45 mph)
Results:
Measured Peak Engine temperature = 340 F
Measured Peak Oil Sump temperature = 267 F
Measured Peak Head Oil Return temperature = 290 F
So for me, its change the oil to full synthetic and wait for the fan assisted oil cooler to come off back order. Once the new oil cooler arrives I will install and test again.
Conditions:
Ambient temperature during testing upper 70's
In Town riding with little traffic but normal stop lights
Speed limited to posted speed limits (35 - 45 mph)
Results:
Measured Peak Engine temperature = 340 F
Measured Peak Oil Sump temperature = 267 F
Measured Peak Head Oil Return temperature = 290 F
So for me, its change the oil to full synthetic and wait for the fan assisted oil cooler to come off back order. Once the new oil cooler arrives I will install and test again.
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Ronbo1 (03-18-2020)
#55
10-20-2016, 03:17 PM
Road Warrior
#56
10-20-2016, 05:56 PM
HD EFI Guru
#57
11-06-2016, 12:27 PM
Advanced
I disagree. All oil comes from the oil pan at one time or another but that in no way means it ALL goes into the cooler. Only a part of the oil ends up in the cooler and if this part is not cooling the engine enough then we can have the temperature issues that we are already seeing in the engine temperature readings. The cooled oil then goes into the heads around the exhaust valves and gets super heated and returned to the pan.
For the record taking a cold engine and recording the data on a 18 mile ride at highway speeds shows the engine temperature climbing the entire time! It never stops getting hotter and that was on a 75 deg day and highway speeds of 55 - 75 MPH flat ground cruise the entire time! Engine temperature started at 70 degrees and continued to climb to 330 degrees! This was on a 107 Stage I bike!
The same bike, run in town at 35 - 50 mph with little to no traffic other than normal stopping at traffic lights did climb to 345 degrees and then cooled to 335 when at speed of about 45mph. Again, this was only a 78 degree ambient temperature day! What's it going to do in 110 ambient temperatures? I rode it into traffic and after several blocks of So. Cal. traffic it had climbed to 360 degrees and I pulled it over and shut it off to cool.
This is just why I'm worried about it and we are adding a temperature probe into the oil pan area to measure Oil temperature in the pan, to see what it's doing. Remember that a Sportster is only 883 or 1200 cc and what worked on it may not work on the larger displacements. FWIW ALL oil cooled trikes get an oil cooler with a fan, so HD must be worried about something or why add it. I have ordered one of those oil cooler kits so we can put it on and see what the differences are.
For the record taking a cold engine and recording the data on a 18 mile ride at highway speeds shows the engine temperature climbing the entire time! It never stops getting hotter and that was on a 75 deg day and highway speeds of 55 - 75 MPH flat ground cruise the entire time! Engine temperature started at 70 degrees and continued to climb to 330 degrees! This was on a 107 Stage I bike!
The same bike, run in town at 35 - 50 mph with little to no traffic other than normal stopping at traffic lights did climb to 345 degrees and then cooled to 335 when at speed of about 45mph. Again, this was only a 78 degree ambient temperature day! What's it going to do in 110 ambient temperatures? I rode it into traffic and after several blocks of So. Cal. traffic it had climbed to 360 degrees and I pulled it over and shut it off to cool.
This is just why I'm worried about it and we are adding a temperature probe into the oil pan area to measure Oil temperature in the pan, to see what it's doing. Remember that a Sportster is only 883 or 1200 cc and what worked on it may not work on the larger displacements. FWIW ALL oil cooled trikes get an oil cooler with a fan, so HD must be worried about something or why add it. I have ordered one of those oil cooler kits so we can put it on and see what the differences are.
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ChrisHo (11-06-2016)
I don't feel so bad now. My pictures are usually upside down when I post them ..................
#59
11-08-2016, 09:56 AM
Grand HDF Member
The weather has warmed back up to the same as the first round of testing. Now the bike is equipped with full instrumentation and recording of the ECM data along with the Front Cylinder Head temperature, Rear Cylinder Head temperature, Oil Sump temperature and Head Oil Return temperature. I saw slightly less Measured Engine temperature on this ride than I did in the first testing, 351 F the first time and 340 F this time. The ride was in-town running posted speed limits with light to no traffic, for about 18 miles.
Conditions:
Ambient temperature during testing upper 70's
In Town riding with little traffic but normal stop lights
Speed limited to posted speed limits (35 - 45 mph)
Results:
Measured Peak Engine temperature = 340 F
Measured Peak Oil Sump temperature = 267 F
Measured Peak Head Oil Return temperature = 290 F
So for me, its change the oil to full synthetic and wait for the fan assisted oil cooler to come off back order. Once the new oil cooler arrives I will install and test again.
Conditions:
Ambient temperature during testing upper 70's
In Town riding with little traffic but normal stop lights
Speed limited to posted speed limits (35 - 45 mph)
Results:
Measured Peak Engine temperature = 340 F
Measured Peak Oil Sump temperature = 267 F
Measured Peak Head Oil Return temperature = 290 F
So for me, its change the oil to full synthetic and wait for the fan assisted oil cooler to come off back order. Once the new oil cooler arrives I will install and test again.
Didn't you just make a bunch of posts claiming that some of the oil doesn't go through the cooler and how inefficient the oil cooling system is???
Then under your logic, how in the world would adding a fan assisted cooler make any difference?
#60
11-08-2016, 10:11 AM
HD EFI Guru
I think you need to reread what I've said. The oil comes from the pump into the cooler to feed the heads for cooling. Look at the temperatures we recorded of 290 F coming out of the heads. By installing a cooler with a fan on it, the hope is, it will reduce that temperature. This would reduce the sump temperatures of 267 F if your not dumping 290 F oil back into it. While we would much rather see a cooler cooling all the oil, that's currently not what is on the bikes.