He's the owner of TTS mastertune.. The company that sell the TTS ecm flash programmer and accessories..

http://www.mastertune.net/

 

Don't be confused. All the oil goes through the oil cooler, just at different times. It is new inasmuch that oil is being used to cool key areas in the heads (in a big twin) although that's not new to Harley; the XR1200 also had it. It is also new inasmuch that the oil circuit is bifurcated at one point in the process but as I said, ALL the oil eventually goes through the cooler.

 

To bad the Tri Glide doesn't come oil cooled. I much prefer an oil cooler to this plumbers nightmare I now have to deal with.

 

You may hope that all the oil goes into the cooler at one time or another but there is a big chunk being overlooked here. Lets setup an example and maybe it will be easier for you all to follow. Oil in the pan is at 220 deg F, the oil comes out of the pump then off to the engine filter with no cooling. As it travels through the engine it lubricates and picks up more heat along the way. A portion of the oil prior to the filter is also sent to the cooler which drops this limited amount of oil to 180 degree. Now it travels to the heads where it is used to try and cool the exhaust seat area. Since this area runs very very hot compared to the oil temperature the oil is now super heated and then returns to the pan at temperatures about the 280 deg range. So now you have 280 degree oil going into the pan along with the lube oil that has gain some amount of heat from its original 220 deg and up goes the pan temperatures! The engine heat continues to rise until it holds at around 330 deg F. So until we can get an accurate oil temperature in the pan we really do not know for sure what is going on.

I can tell you that it takes much longer for a M8 engine to cool once hot, when compared to a TwinCam. We have measured that and it's near twice as long in controlled testing. So right now there is still some things unknown that we will have answers for in the following weeks of testing. Once we have all the bits and pieces of the data all sorted the 117 kit will be installed and tested, but without a though set of test data from before and after it's just a guess and that's not good enough for us.

 

Here's what I said and what I stand by.

ALL the oil eventually goes through the oil cooler in a single pump, common oil pan, dry sump system; even though the circuit is bifurcated for cooling passages in the heads and engine lubrication. Once oil is returned to the oil pan there's no mechanism to keep the cooling passage oil and the engine lubrication oil separate. Given enough time, ALL the oil will pass through the oil cooler, the heads, the engine and the oil filter. There's just no mechanical way it can't.

You seem to be focused on heat and use that as the basis for saying not all the oil goes through the oil cooler. Using that train of thought, do you also believe that some of the oil doesn't go through the filter as well? Let's not talk about heat or the temperatures of sump oil; let's just talk about HOW ANY oil from a common oil pan pumped by a single pump remains separate.

Teach me what I don't know and I'll thank you. I've learned more by being wrong that I ever learned being right.

 

I just to bring up another question. If some of the oil is diverted to the oil cooler and other oil is sent to the filter, I guess the only some of the oil is filtered. Eventually all the oil would pass thru the oil filter just as all the oil would pass thru the oil cooler. Am I correct in thinking this way?

 

True. Since all oil returns to the oil pan - it mixes, so all oil goes everywhere eventually. Do note that all oil heading to the small passages of the internal engine parts is filtered... which is good.

I don't think we should be freaking out over the new system just yet either.
There is not enough public data available to definitively show the system as designed = failure.
Things may be hotter in certain areas, but I'm confident HD has engineered things well enough to take that into account.

People need to remember that hot oil has never been cooled before returning to the oil pan.
If the old system came with an oil cooler, all oil was cooled before reentering the engine to go to hot places, not after.
The only notable difference in the M8 is that the oil going to the internal engine parts does not go through the oil cooler.
That's just like any other engine without an oil cooler (like 75% of HD engines?) and by itself does not automatically = bad.

I kinda wonder though, how long before someone puts an oil filter mount oil cooler adapter on and starts running a small second oil cooler? You know, just to send cooler oil to the internal engine parts.
How much would that really change oil temps/seat temps and overall engine longevity? Maybe not a lot.

 

My biggest problem with the new oil cooler is that it's hideous looking and way too prone for damage. Adding lowers to the air cooled models will help hide the cooler but surely there's something better coming along and hopefully it's not a chin spoiler.


Information like Steve provides gives the patient buyer a chance to set back and research a little before buying. I appreciate his efforts and especially coming on here and sharing with us. Way too many of you take things out of context and beat it to death unfortunately but oil circulating at those temperatures isn't going to last long. It'll break down very fast and only the best synthetics will hold up but it's life is shortened as well.

 

The oil does all go in the pan but there is nothing to force all the oil to the cooler at one time or another. There is nothing mixing the oil in the pan. Sure, giving enough time it should end up in the cooler at one time or another but that doesn't do much good if the oil has already been pushed to hot and is breaking down. Once that occurs mixing bad oil with good oil is even worse! Were just in the learning phase of things and until all the data is gathered we will not know for sure. All I can say is it's not looking good based on the heat readings so far from the engine temperature sensors and from head temperature readings. Once we have the missing piece, which is Oil temperatures, things will be what they are. If it needs and addition oil cooler I will install one, others can do as they wish as its there bike.

 

This is incorrect.

FYI - I've attached a copy of the Service Bulletin that properly describes how the EITMS works on Twin Cam Rushmores.