hi again
ok here we go, i deceided to bite the bullitt and rebuild the motor,
starting at the top end, luckily all seems to be ok with the heads and rockers so got away with that ,my barrells were already bored +70 and in a very poor condition with score marks, the pistons were in the same poor condition, new barrells or a resleeve was the option, so now i am currently awaiting delivery of a secondhand pair of +.30 barrels and pistons from the states(good old ebay)should be here in a couple of weeks,i am going to get a new pair of +40 pistons and have the barrells bored, then i know the top end is in good shape.
which brings me on to the bottom of the motor,the front conrod must have had at least 1/4 of an inch play in the big end and the main bearings had loads of play as well ,rather than have my crank rebuilt i have bought a good second hand crank with s&s rods(ebay again)and will put a new spocket shaft and pinnon shaft on that, with a new set of main bearings and that hopefully will sort that out,then all i got to do is replace the clutch basket bearing,get the cam bushes line reamed (properly this time),service the oil pump, then the fun bit putting it all back together.
well thats me for the moment will post again when i have more news,hopefully there should be a couple of pics with this post(note the metal filings in the bottom of the cases and on the wooden block)you do not want this ALWAYS run an oil filter i learnt the hard way.
thanx to everyone for all the help and advice
lewzab

 

The words "ironhead" and "project" seem to go together. Along with "progress" it is part of the good life.

 

Lewzab........
I am glad to hear you are doing the rebuild correctly. The timing cover really needed to be line reamed, and this is the time to do it (with cases split).

I see the metal and I feel your pain. I wish to make a comment though about the oil filter business.........
Most people swear by installing a filter on the machine. I do not count myself among those however, as most members here know.

Just give this some thought...... I have never seen a Sportster oil filter installed anywhere other than down stream of the engine.
This puts it between the engine and the oil tank.
The oil is being filtered AFTER it has passed through the engine. What good does this do other than keep metal particles out of the tank?
In short, it seems to protect the tank rather than the engine.

If you say OK, then I will put the filter between the oil tank and the inlet of the oil pump instead of after.
While this arrangement will certainly filter the oil before it hits the engine, and this is where a filter should be, Lord help you if the filter becomes clogged! It can wipe out the entire engine.

Those are my reasons to not use a filter, and to instead change the oil often and check the oil level regular basis.
In other words, H-D did not install a filter on the original machine. The rule was to change the oil.
If you suddenly get metal chips inside the engine, the damage is done at that point. Having a filter will do nothing but keep the metal out of the tank. If your aim with a filter is to trap the small particles of metal given off over time, then a frequent oil change will do a much better job than will a downstream filter.
Oh well, something to ponder I suppose........... pg

 

PG,
I have read a lot of your posts and you always bring up a lot of valid points and I am not trying to disrespect you in any way, but I disagree with your thinking here slightly. I agree that a filter is not a substitute for regular oil changes, but that doesn't mean that a filter won't help the wear and tear on your engine. Even with regular oil changes, small wear particles will be circulated back into the oil tank, and with no filter, you have nothing to stop them from being circulated back into the engine. In my opinion, the oil filter is there to keep the particles out of your "clean" oil supply in the tank. You can't stop the particles from being circulated the first time, but why let them circulate from the time they become dislodged until you change the oil again? even if you change your oil every 500 miles, the filter will still help. again, I say HELP because it is not a substitute for regular oil changes.

 

D Slat.....
You are certainly not alone in being a believer in having an oil filter. Most folks agree with what you say.

I will say that I do not disagree with you either. My 2003 Dyna came with an oil filter and I am a believer in keeping that filter changed out with a new filter at every oil change I do.

In the case of a 1971 Sportster, it never had a filter on it and I will keep it that way. Knowing there is no filter on the engine, that presses me to change the oil and to do it often.

Any engine running has metal particles floating around in the oil, regardless if there is a filter or not.

I just had a recent and very ugly experience with a Chevy engine. I bought this engine as a brand new rebuilt engine in 2005. I installed it in my van and over the following 3 years I put 15,000 miles on the engine. The oil and filter is changed every 3,000 miles without fail.

One day in 2008 my wife has the van out on the road for an out of town trip and she calls me up and says she is headed home and the van is making a funny knocking noise. I tell her to just keep driving and if it stops give me a call and I will come get her.
She gets home and the 'knocking noise' is indeed a knocking noise. Good call wifey. The noise is coming from a connecting rod.

I had had enough! This time I would pull the engine and see what was wrong. If it needed any work I would do it myself. I just get tired of having some wrench who could care less work on any equipment that I own.

So I drained the oil and removed the oil filter as a start. The first thing I noticed was the oil filter (which holds a quart of oil) weighed about 5 lbs! H-mmm, strange, I thought at the time.

After the engine was out, I removed the intake manifold. Expecting to see a grungy looking interior (after all, there was a rod knocking somewhere) but was shocked to see the engine so clean...... I would actually eat my lunch right off the metal surfaces. Everything was that clean. No metal grit anywhere. Maybe I don't have a rod knocking I thought.

I removed the heads. Same thing. Bores were perfect looking.
I flipped it over and removed the oil pan. Beautiful! Clean as a pin!
Then I unbolted the rod caps and main caps to remove the pistons and crank. Nothing but horror to look at there!

All the main bearings were almost worn out. All of the rod bearings were worn out, except for rod #5. Rod #5 had worn through the babbit surface, then worn through the copper underlay, then worn half way through the base metal of the insert. This was the rod that we heard knocking.

So I took the crank and rods to my machine shop and Jerry said he had not seen anything like this for an engine with only 15K miles on it, ever! He also had no idea of what caused it. I expected to find shoddy workmanship inside, but such was not the case. Dimensions were written on each rod cap and main, so someone had measured things. The engine bolts were torqued to spec. I tested every bolt before I removed it to see if someone had failed to fasten things down properly. Every bolt had been tightened to spec.

I went home and cut open that 5 lb oil filter. Inside was packed solid with all manner of metal shavings and grit.

So the point of this overly long tale is this.......
Yes an oil filter will catch the metal particles. But when you have an engine that is going to self destruct anyway, an oil filter is not going to prevent that from happening. But it does contain the metal so completely that you never see any silver metal particles when you change the oil. Ironic ain't it?

For the record, the Chevy engine is back in the van and running sweetly. Hope it is for a long time as well. The original 305 engine had 185K when a water pump failure out on the highway stuck the engine and cracked the block.
The new 350 replacement ran only 15K miles before it self destructed. I now have 201K+ miles on the old gal and gave it a new paint job 2 years back........... pg

 

I agree with you entirely here PG, the filter will not "save" an engine that is going to grenade, and it may hide the warning signs of an engine that's going by catching the metal, if you don't look for it. If you want to see what your oil filter has strained out of your oil supply, the best way is to cut it open. you would be surprised at what you may find. Oh, and one more thing for others who are reading this, whether you run a filter or not, it is always a good idea to clean out the bottom of your oil tank every now and again. When I bought my '72 shovelhead, there was all kinds of small debris in the bottom of the tank.

 

Absolutely D Slat.
Also, another view on the sludge in the tank of your shovel........ left undisturbed, most of it will just sit there and do no harm (except get deeper).
But I agree, a good idea once in a while remove the oil tank and give it a good washing inside.
All of these things help keep an engine running smoothly and without problems......... pg

 

I also am doing a rebuild but i am starting at the bottom and working my way up.
Least i now know where all the metal fragments came from.Anyone got a matching set of flywheels.

 

For a flywheels one option is ... try Truett&Osbourne they have also std stroke wheels...
http://www.truettandosborn.com/flywheels.htm

 

can you people warn me before yall post horror pics.seriously i hate looking at photos like that....gives me nitemares.
pinion i dont expect to change your mind but sometimes they make somthing a certain way and realize later they should have done things a little different.......i dont see how straining the oil is going to hurt anything.to me it would seem that little tiny bit of material that gets strained out by a filter if not having been filtered would have contributed to a little more wear the next time it flowed through....on and on...i dont see how its good to filter oil for a new bike and not for an old one....i also consider a sawzaw an essential tool for working on autos though ---i get your point on a destructing engine.nothing will save it if that is gonna happen.keeping general wear down though would be different in my opinion.-----i am sure you have heard that all before though.
edit-ive got some relatives who are "restoring" an old vette......they have no intentions of pulling the oil pan....its been sitting for YEARS....first oil change in probably 20 yrs.---it kills me.