I got my kick starter parts, so I'm back out in the garage. Between bouts of cursing and shaking my head in disbelief, I realized I have no idea what to do with the cams in this thing. I don't even know exactly what all of them do. The cover has one in it still. It's the one that sits behind the points. There's also what looks to be an idler gear, three that I believe have to do with intake/exhaust, and two that look to have come off the shaft. Inside the case there's one that's facing up (perpendicular to the direction of all the others).

This bike was free, so taking it to the scrapyard isn't out of the question, but before I reach that point, I figured I'd see what kind of help you all may be able to provide. I have a couple of main questions:

1. How do I align these gears properly. Of the four that I'm pretty sure are intake/exhaust, one has a "S", one has a dot, one has a "S" and a dot, and one I cannot see if it has anything.
1a. How do I get that other one out of the cover. I took the point cover off, and see a bolt head, but I'm not interested in turning on anything until I know more.

2. I've been searching on here, and have come across a timing method involving some hole with a line in it. Should it be done before or after I get this cam mess cleaned up?

3. What else do I need to be doing as this is going on?

Thanks for any help!

 

the CAM are of your bike can be interesting to mess with. But its quite simple once you actually get into it. I'll just answer all of your questions here.

1. Check out these pictures I have on putting the CAMs back in. http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/s...d.php?t=239641

1A. To get the one CAM still stuck in the cover flip the cover over and remove the points cover (the round flat cover). There should be a bolt right in the middle of the points with a 9/16" head that once you unscrew it, the cam on the back side will drop off.

2. Ignition timing is done independently of the CAMS. After you have your CAMS correctly, on the opposite side of the bike is a bolt between both cylinders. If you remove that bolt (with the bike off) put the bike in fourth gear and rotate the back wheel slowly you will eventually see a mark on your fly wheel that is straight up and down. This mark indicates TDC on the front cylinder. To correctly time your machine you would want to use an inductive timing light and turn the bike on (with the back wheel off the floor) get the bike up to around 2000RPM and shine the inductive timing light in the hole. If that mark shows up then your bike is timed right. If not then you will have to adjust the points backing plate to the left and right correctly to make it show up. If you don't know what your doing it might be best to let this be done by someone who does. It can be very troublesome and complex.

3. You need to be looking for a factory service manual on the internet for your bike to have with you so you know what your doing.

 

It is important to keep in mind that the cam cover is not just a cover. It does contain all those soft, easily damaged, brass bushings. The pushrods and the ignition equipment must be removed before removing the cam cover. This step was omitted - that is how the one cam got stuck in there.

When removing and re-installing the cam cover it must go on/off straight with no prying. Best way to achieve this is to use 3 or 4 studs made up from 3" bolts the same thread as the cover bolts. When removing, first replace 3 or 4 of the cover bolts with studs each turned in a few threads. Then the cover will come straight off. Similar for re-install.

The idler gear is for the generator. It goes on toward the front. It should have a fiber washer on the side that you see when it is installed in the case.

There is a mark on the pinion gear, and similar marks on the cam gears. These must all line up. Start with the pinion gear mark at about the 11:00 o'clock position. This mark can be hard to see; it is on a tooth; it may be covered up by part of the lock washer [if your year has a lock washer].

Install the #2 cam so that the middle one of its 3 marks lines up with the pinion mark; then the #1 cam so its mark lines up with the #2; then the #3 cam and the #4. Then the gen idler gear.

Post pics of your cam gears that show any ID marks, numbers, letters, etc.

Search YouTube. You will find there an excellent video of how to do the timing.

You need a factory manual and a factory parts book. J&P Cycles, other catalog companies, eBay, any HD Dealer.

 

Your first mistake you made was to take something apart without having the slightest clue of what you were doing.

How many of those thin shim washers fell out?
How about the 2 cam plates sitting behind the 4 cams? Did they fall out too?

You now need to re-time the cams and check the cam end play on each and every cam. Not a difficult job, but you need to know what you are doing and how to do it.

So, you got the bike for free, and maybe it is worth little to you as a result.
Feel free to take it to the junk yard if you wish.
If you want to fix it instead, then get yourself a service manual and politely ask someone here on the forum for help............. pg

 

supr2nr - Thanks for all the info. Really appreciate it.

IronMick - Fiber washer is on the idler. While I have found the mark on the pinion gear, the others all have different markings from what I am finding on here and in the manual. I just took some pictures, and I will try to insert them in this post.

piniongear - As stated before, this bike came to me like this. I assure you, what little I have taken apart has had no impact on the standing of this motorcycle. The previous owner can be thanked for what has already been done. All I'm trying to do is fix some mistakes, and save an American classic from death.

I am one of those people that likes to do everything right, and gets upset when mickey mouse actions take place. However, with the shape it is in, it really isn't worth getting too excited about. The case has been beaten up badly. It looks like the chain broke at one point, and there's epoxy and weld everywhere. Bent studs, body filler all over the frame, stripped screw holes, more helicoils than I've ever seen in anything else, exhaust rockers mixed up with intake ones, and on and on.

The bike is a dog, but it did run before it got taken apart, and I'm going to do all that I can within reason to get it running again. That includes, as you recommend, and as my original post's purpose represents, asking for help.
Now, perhaps you took offense to the scrapyard thing, and that's why your post comes off as condescending. I do value your input, as one would have to be blind not to see that your are a wealth of knowledge. Hopefully, you now understand why that is an option. Cheers!

And now, without further ado, my attempt to insert pictures into this post:

 

Looks like that worked out.

piniongear - Most of them still have shims on them. There are two shims that aren't on anything though. And, yes, the cam plates are out as well.

Anyone -

The things I know are as follows:
- Felt washer for idler should be on side facing out
- Beveled edge of cam plates should face out

The things I know I don't know:
- Where the shims go that aren't on anything currently
- How to align using the marks that are there

The things I don't know:
- I'm all ears

 

WillieD..........
Hang tight with me. My computer crashed last month and I built a new one. Repaired the old one with a new motherboard, hard drive and power supply.
Everything works and my backups are on an external hard drive. This morning I started to transfer all my files to the computer (read that motorcycle files saved for the past 5 years) and find that the backup drive died also. So, I may have trouble finding what I wanted to show you.

Here is a stack up showing the parts needed for the camshafts........



The bearings (18) are in your crankcase at present.
Here is how you begin:
Remove the tappet guides. (all 4 come out). Mark each guide so you will be able to install it back into the same hole it came out of.

Take one cam gear plate (11) and slide it onto cams 9 and 10. These are the front intake and front exhaust respectively. DO NOT USE any of the shim washers (12).
Place the cams with the gear plate into the crankcase. Do not try to line up the marks right now.

Next, do the same with the rear intake and rear exhaust cams and insert them into the crankcase. Do not install the pinion gear or the idler gear at this time.Do not try to align the timing marks on these either.

Next, clean the gasket surfaces of the timing cover and the crankcase face where the cover goes. Take a brand new timing cover gasket and install it with the timing cover to the crankcase. Do not use gasket sealer.

Tighten down the timing cover with an ;X' pattern, much like you would a cylinder head.

Now you are ready to check the 4 camshafts end play.
Get a pencil and paper and write down the results of each cam.
Using feeler gages and a screwdriver, force the cam lobe to one side and measure what the gap is on the other side of the cam. Write down the amount of play.

Do the same thing for the other 3 cams.
The proper camshaft end play clearance for every cam is minimum of .001 and a maximum of .005 inch. If you have more that .005 (and I bet you have way more) then this is fixed by installing the required number of shim washers (item 12) to obtain the proper end play.

The shim washers come in 2 thckness..... .005 and .007. You combine a numberof shims to eliminate the excessive end play. You can place these shims (12) between the backside of the cams and the cam gear plate (11) and/or between the outside of the cam (facing you) and the timing cover bushing. See the illustration Fig. 3-25.

Myself, I always install them on the backside of the cams.
When you reinstall the tappet guides (3) I strongly suggest you use new O rings(5).

Well, I am blown out for now.
The next step will be to install the cams, the pinion gear and the oil pump spiral gear. Part of this exercise will involve the timing of the oil pump breather. After this is done you will have the cam timing done, the oil pump breather timed, the proper end play in the camshafts, and the timing cover bolted on tight.

Let me know when you want to proceed to this next step............ pg

PS: Here is a pic of the cam timing gear marks for timing the cams...


The first pic is of poor quality and you may not be able to read it.If not, me know and I will attempt to provide a better copy for you.

 

I have a pdf file of HD service bulletin M-860, November 12, 1982. It announces that shimming the cams is no longer recommended. The file is too large for me to upload. Is there another way for me to post it? E-mail it? Whatever?

 

Mick.........
Sometime in the very late 70's or at 1980 Harley stated that the cam shims were no longer necessary. I do not know what made them change this.
Perhaps research showed them that there was no adverse effect if the cams banged side to side with excessive clearance? I have no idea.
Being very old school myself, I will always follow what the manual says for whatever the particular model year specifications state.

If I had a later model machine then I may not shim to proper clearance as specified in an earlier model. WillieD's machine has shims in it so that tells me it is an earlier model, and I recommend he shim it to .001 to .005 side clearance.

Regarding posting the PDF file, as far as I know it is not possible to do so here on the forum. I really wish it was. A JPG of a text item really makes for a poor copy sometimes. Almost all of the other sites where we show pics of chrome most of the time.....a JEG is just fine.

Here on the IR site, we exchange a lot more information regarding building and fixing our machines, and the need for using PDFs is quite important. Afterall, PDF stands for Portable Document File doesn't it? I had hoped when they changed up this forum a while back that the new issue would include being able to post a PDF.
That was not done, (to my knowledge) and remains a sore spot for me.......... pg

 

I'm heading to the garage now. I'll see what I can do about getting the play straightened out, and then return for more. I've found the alignment information on here, but I haven't run across anyone with markings similar to the ones I have.

IronMick - I sent a PM with my email in hopes of getting that bulletin.

piniongear - I'm pretty sure Google Docs allows for the upload of .pdf files. If you go that route, you can just point people to the link and the appropriate page of the document in the future instead of having to convert/upload to this site. Frees up HDD space, and provides another source of back-up too.