So as many of you remember I startd a thread the other day of how I got stranded. The main jet plug had somehow wiggled it's way free during a ride and I lost all my gas. In the mean time while I waited on that part I figured I would knock out the problem with the bike having very bad timinig issue and not running well. That stemmed from being the previous owner not lining up the marks on the CAMS correctly. Fixd ALL of the above. Then realized that I needed a new clutch cable. Finally get that in from J&P Cycles. Take the bike off the lift, double checked my push rod adjustments, points gap, gas tank, etc. Push the start button and turns over and turns over and turns over. No firing. Damnit. I take a break, come back out and think to myself, ahhh the timing is likely off because of the issue with the cams not being properly lined up. So I open my trusty manual, find that HD says if no timing light is availble to put the points in the middle of the slots until a timing light is obtained. Well I have a timing light but the bike won't start enough for me to time it. So I figure I will adjust the points as stated maybe that will be the bike running for me.

No. Try to start it, and turns over a couple of times and then I hear just a loud pitch winding noise from my starter. So now I'm pretty ticked off. I realize that the new clutch cable is not pushing the clutch basket in properly. I try again adjusting the clutch per specs in the manual. All is right. Try again holding the clutch cable in and starting the bike and still just a winding noise from the starter.

So I pull the primary cover off again (essentially ruining my gasket once again) and find that the clutch cable is hooked up right sitting on the ball bearings as it should be. But then i notice that the starter motors gear just spins freely, it never engages with the clutch basket turning the motor over.

So few questions. 1. Is the stater gear supposed to spin freely? I can literally reach my finger in there and spin the gear with no problem. 2. Anyone have a clue why the bike won't start? It turns over but just won't catch to start. I have triple checked all the pushrods, gaps, timing, etc. All is right. The one time it did start it ran so awful it felt like it was going to shake the entire bike apart, and flames were shooting out the exhaust (as though the detonation cycle was happening right when the exhaust valves were opening). The second question might be resolved by adjusting the timing, but I can't try to start it with the starter motor giving me problems.

It is possible that I have removed too much of the CAM free end play and its physically binding the cams so tight preventing the motor from running or do you think if that were the case the motor would not turn over at all?

Oh and just a side not to add to my level of frustration. In the middle of trying to get it to start and keep running the damn throttle cable snapped in two. So you can see my level of frustration now. All I want to do is ride the damn thing but its being a total pain in the butt!

Also this is a 1976 XLH electric start. Has a Mikuni VM38

 

Did you use a feeler gauge to set the cam end play? Is your starter bendix gear shot?

 

I did use a feeler guage and I got it to where I believed it should be right, but as you already know its hard to really see and feel that with a feeler guage with the jugs on and what not.

I'm not sure if the starter bendix gear is shot thats what I'm asking. Is it common for the gear to rotate that freely?

 

Your starter needs to be thrown out before it will engage. As it sits it will spin freely. If the solenoid doesn't throw, then it won't engage. You may need a new starter, and/or soleniod.

Make sure your timing isn't 180 out (sort of). You may be firing on the exhaust stroke only. Most harley's fire both cylinders at teh same time, but if you have installed a single fire ignition it will be timed to a specific cylinder. It shouldn't run at all in this case, but is worth checking.

If you're binding due to tight clearances the motor will turn slowly when the starter does engage. (first get starter to engage) If the motor turns over freely then you're not binding.

 

I can see the solenoid throwing the starter gear outward but its just not hitting the clutch basket like it should (but obviously its because I have the primary case off). I really hope I don't need a new starter. I can't afford a new starter.

 

So does anyone else have any thoughts on this? I still don't understand why the starter or solenoid would go out that quickly. I didn't get any warning at all or any problems just all the suddent he thing just stopped working.

The bike not starting and just turning over is wearing me out. I'm completely tired of this. I really need some help here. Please I'm begging you guys.

 

Don't know why the starter would suddenly stop working. Any time I've worked on the bike and then something that had been working suddenly stops working, I assume it's something I did and retrace all my steps, looking for a causal relationship.

As far as the misfiring goes, has the chrome coil cover always been on there? They can sometimesshort out the coil terminals and cause a problem like that. If not, I'd get my timinglight ready and get someone to help you push start it so you can time it.

Are you sure the cams are timed right? You're not getting any metal-to-metal collisions in the head, are you? That type of mayhem would bind the engine, which would also bind the starter, and make it run terrible, if at all.

Sorry, but that's about all I can think of.

 

Yah I'm thinking I'm going to have to pull the CAM cover off once again. I am thinking now that the CAMs are binding and causing problems. The starter not engaging just has me pulling my hair out. I did absolutely nothing to the starter at all. I pulled the primary cover off to put the new clutch cable in, but that has nothing to do with the starter. At this point I am stuck with thinking that either the solenoid isn't pulling in hard enought to push the starter bendix out or the solenoid just isn't getting enough power. At this point I think I am going to have to leave my battery on a charger for a couple of good hours and then go back to it.

The starting problem might also be bad points. As I pulled them off they likely got greasy or bent. I have already re-ordered a new set of points to try and fix that. It's just so frustrating the weather finally got nice and I want to ride but obviously the bike just doesn't want me to.

 

Okay so pulled the starter housing (not because I wanted to but because I needed to see what was going on). Tested the starter motor by temporarily giving it 12 volts of power. Spins great.

Solenoid is puling the pluger in perfectly sending the bendix gear up correctly. The only problem I see is the bendix gear. That dang bendix gear spins freely in both directions even when fully pushed to the front of the shaft. Is this supposed to happen? I am thinking not because if it moves freely like it does then there is no way for it to engage and spin the motor. I am ready to buy another 25 dollar or so gear but I need to make fully sure that I am correct in my thinking.

Thanks to everyone so far with all the help.

 

Referring to the illustration:
The starter motor (item 30) shaft is engaged with the drive gear (item 23)
The drive gear is seated in the splines of the shaft (item 22). All of the items (item 18) follow on the shaft, and in addition items 16 and 17 also go on the shaft.

When the solenoid pulls in, it makes the pinion gear (item 20) go outward, engaging with the clutch basket gear (not shown)
As all of this is happening, the starter motor gets 12 volts fed to it and it begins to spin. This turns the drive gear (item 23) and the shaft (item 22).
The shaft will turn clockwise looking straight on at it. The pinion (item 20) at this point is locked to the shaft and should be spinning the clutch basket.
If it is not, then look to the problem being with the pinion gear (item 20). The gear is not the problem, but inside the housing on the side of the gear there is a clutch inside. This clutch releases if the starter button is held down after the engine starts. If there was no clutch, the engine rpm would wipe out the starter. It sounds like you have a clutch problem. Not the clutch clutch, but the clutch inside this small housing on the pinion. Take a look at that to see if it is failing to lock in the pinion when the starter goes on. You describe it as if the gear is spinning, but I have a hard time understanding that as it should be soildly locked into engagement with the clutch basket gear at that point Maybe you mean the shaft is spinning in the pinion gear?.........pg
edit note: Randy, I just reread your post. Yes the gear spins free when you pull it all the way out to the end of the shaft. When the starter engages though, the shaft is moved outward, not so much the gear. The gear does move out when it bottoms on the spiral lands.
The spiral lands on the shaft engage with lands inside the pinion and this is what makes the pinion lock in place on the shaft. Look at it closer again.




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