Originally Posted by Tcrafty

To clarify. This was the tune I received from Cycle solutions for my TC88 with Andrews21 cams. I changed the spots where you see the yellow dots to show what I was talking about. The yellow dots are the ones that came in the tune. I just changed them here to show the difference.

I have upped the timing on this tune in certain spots, but I think a LOT depends on how you ride it. I don't flog it from just off idle, and I'm pretty tame compared to many. I always run 93 octane fuel and I have a set of OEM mufflers and windshield that I use when I do any timing changes so I can hear the engine run when at speed. I couldn't hear knock with the other mufflers if it was upside my head! I've picked up a little bit of pinging while working on the tune and just backed it out where it occurred. The bike really runs good, right off of idle with the A21 cams. I checked the RPM records and it's never seen over 5200 RPM. With that cam, it isn't designed to.

The biggest issue I've had with timing is right off closed throttle, as I mentioned. With more timing at idle, the bike ran AWESOME with no knock, but just a hair-off idle, until around 2300 RPM, it would buck. If I was accelerating, it was gone, but there's a brick road I travel and just trying to keep at a slow speed in first gear (not accelerating over 20 mph or so) it would make you look like you didn't know what you were doing!

I've run it lean, I've run it fat. The only thing I found to eliminate it is to retard the timing in that area. I figured that drop in the timing from ThunderMax is to prevent this. Not sure if anyone else had this same issue or not? I'm no pro (I'll likely prove it sometime) but I have done a fair bit of tuning on aftermarket ECUs (Holley EFI) for autos. Air-cooled is quite different, but I'm catching up! And, always open for instruction Max. I've gathered that you've been working with Thundermax's for a while.

Originally Posted by Max Headflow

I was just wondering why the post? I thought it might be in reference to Jay Guild but not sure what you are suggesting other than how to edit timing maps?

Originally Posted by Tcrafty

It was in reference to Jay's post about the engine's power falling off. Not always a solution, but wanted to suggest that maybe there is some benefit in firing a little sooner. Some folks may or may not know about/how to change the settings to optimize the canned tune. Just trying to be informative a well as toss out a suggestion.

Only dyno my bike has been on is the ol' butt dyno, so I have no printed evidence to my claim. But, it does seem happy for my style of riding.
Good luck to Jay in cracking that 100-mark!

Originally Posted by Jay Guild

Topped out at 78/98. The torque peaked and stayed pretty flat between 3200 and 4300 but really fell off higher than that.

Originally Posted by Max Headflow

You could be right.. Might need a little more timing but then it might need a little less. Might need a little more fuel, or a little less. Might be something else. Jay could have tried advancing the timing on the dyno or even retarding it a little. Nice thing about the Tmax is that you can change settings live. Your mods are a little confusing as an example for me since your mods were at 3000 and 2816 but Jay seems to be having problems in the upper RPM range. You are absolutely correct that there could be too much timing and no ping.

I do think he's right playing with the pipes. One thing you can do to see what pipes look the best is to run the bike until the Tmax has learned all the AFR offsets. Do the auto map, then copy the map into a previous version of the map and see where fuel was increased. More fuel is typically an indicator of more power (not always tho).

Originally Posted by Jay Guild

Tuner isn't able to run TMax but now I know next time to take my own computer with me, ask him what he thinks needs to be adjusted, then make the adjustments myself, run a few learning runs, then dyno again.

So a few days ago I did add timing on the 3800 and up maps at 70% and higher throttle. It didn't help at the 3800-4200 range but it seemed to help a little higher than that.
So then I lowered AFRs for 75% throttle and higher on 3200 and up maps. Everything got worse so I think it might be a rich bogging.
Today I increased those same AFRs to .2 above where they started and things got better. So my bungs are much lower than the stock position, about 12 inches, so I think it may be reading leaner than it is running and dumping too much gas, especially at higher flow times. Next dyno run I will also be comparing the measured AFR from the dyno to the target AFR on the TMax. Also, ordered new plugs and air filter to replace the current ones, just in case. I had replaced the fuel filter and did a pressure check on the fuel line in the tank last fall.

Originally Posted by Jay Guild

I checked it and my bungs are actually only 7 inches from the exhaust port so within the 6 to 10 inch range expected. I did increase the AFRs for the 3K to 3500 high throttle ranges as well to see if it helped with WOT from cruise and did some seat of the pants and listening to the engine dyno work after. The engine responded much better from cruise as well now so I'm trying with all of my AFRs about .2-.3 higher than where they were. I'll say that even on my ride to work at cruising speeds and idle it no longer gurgles out the exhaust. I'll try an auto-tune run over lunch and let ya know. I'm really curious to get this on the dyno now and find out just how much leaner the TMax is measuring compared to the dyno. I found some forum posts around the internet that say they saw up to 1.2 leaner AFR readings from the TMax compared to the dyno.