Marketing Hype, I figure. Look at ANY K&N ad. On other vehicles, this may be true, but the exhaust on OUR bikes is THE bottleneck on airflow. The Stock Football already out flows the exhaust.

I have a dyno. I get different bikes up on there. an AC change does NOTHING, until the exhaust gets changed.... then... we DO get a noticeable change like DK Customs posted.

And.... a 'true' stage one is NOT cheap, either. But it IS the first step up in power, and for any future additions like cams, is the foundation.

Think of our engines as a simple air pump. Air goes in, air goes out. MOCO uses the exhaust to limit the air thru our engines. Once the exhaust has been modified away from stock, AND an AC added, we have really changed the amount of air thru our engines. It's similar to running an air powered tool thru a 1/4" hose or a 1/2" hose. Way more air.

Now... we have air AND fuel that goes thru our engines. By placing a Stage 1 on our bikes, we alter how much air there is -vs- how much fuel is being used by the engine. In stock form, if we do a Stage1, we have changed the air-vs-fuel ratios. We have added WAY more air, but we have NOT added any more fuel. The air-to fuel ratio is called AFR.

Engines run best at certain AFRs. Our bikes come LEAN from the factory. Lean means that the AFR has NOT enough fuel for good operation. An AFR of 14.6 is what the FActory determines is OK for EPA regulations. ANd... truth be told, for areas of riding, etc. 14.6 AFR is a good number to aim at.

But... when we add more air to the engine, we change that 14.6 from the factory to something like 16.0 AFR. This is dangerously lean, no longer 'just' lean. Not enough fuel makes things heat up fast and stay hot. Not enough fuel can actually damage an engine.... from heat.

So, hopefully, you can see how, with a Stage 1, we need to ALSO change the fuel being outputted by the injectors to MATCH our increase in air, right? And that... my friend is where the true power boost comes in from. More fuel! More fuel means a larger explosion inside of the combustion chamber. Larger the explosion, more power is being made. Simply adding just air.... NOT a bigger explosion... in fact the explosive force is less than stock, because so much air is in there, it can actually DAMPEN the explosion.

ANY increase in power, on our bikes.... takes more fuel. And it will NOT adjust either. These are not cars. A Car or truck uses a different style of EFI than our bikes do.

Fuel.

As you read along, while saving money for a Stage 1... read about FUEL. ANd the ways folks add fuel to the bikes AFR.... trying to get those AFRs back to reasonable.

There are multiple methods to gain fuel in your bike. Anywhere from $100 to $1000 or so. Lets start at the total best systems and work down. For $900, someone like me can dyno tune you bike, on a dynamometer, using what is called a 'flash' tuner. On a 'dyno' one adjusts each and every rpm point on fuel and air. This is the tried and true best way to 'remap' the programming inside of your bike. With a dyno, and a good operator, one's bike is completely tuned to use the correct fuel and air everywhere one may ride the bike. Things like timing changes, how the bike starts, even how it goes downhill, are changed to have an exact fit to YOUR bike.

Next up, is DIY tuning using a flash tuner. I myself only use a brand of tuner called TTS. But there is also two more brands that are used a lot. A Harley dealer will use a SEPST. (Screaming Eagle Pro Super Tuner). This tuner works OK. Not as well as TTS and..... not as well as a PV (Power Vision), which is the third tuner. With any of these three, you can DIY tune your own bike. That takes a learning curve of some sorts and also dedication. A LOT of guys will state how easy it is to use, and somewhat... that is true, but most fellas do NOT get the best results because they do not understand timing, and all of the small settings they leave alone. I GOOD dyno guy will adjust all of those settings, and IS the difference between a GOOD dyno tune and a mediocre dyno tune. A flash tuner has alomst 30 different tables and adjustments that need to come together for a nice riding bike.

Stay away from almost all dealers for a Dyno tune, BTW. They suck.

Next up is 'add-on' things. ANYTHING that is added to the bike is there to alter fuel. Some can alter SOME of the timing. NONE alter all the small stuff, like how the bike starts, how it changes when the motor goes or comes out of load, etc. These add ons are things like Power Commanders (NOT Power Vision), DFOs Fuelers, Cobras, V&H stuff, etc.

Last thing down for simple and cheap is an XIED type device. It is simple a resistor placed inline with the Oxygen sensors (O2s) on your bike. What these do is fool the bike into thinking it needs a bit more fuel. For the most part... it works.

There will be some on here that say the XIEDs are THE solution. That is not the case, and is instead the case of a rider who does not know the difference. They say how much better a bike runs with these, and the fuelers and that all of those are the cats ***.... when in truth, those folks have NO comparison to anything. Runs better than what? Their own bike?

Those kind of comparisons are BOGUS. They have NO frame of reference.

Someone like you, the OP.... get a nice air cleaner and pipes. Get a set of XIEDS, too. Ride the bike relatively easy for a season... all the while saving up for a flash tuner. Bypass all the add-on PCs, DFOS, etc... as those were made for bikes from the late 90s and early 2000s. NOT TRULY FOR YOUR O2 EQUIPPED bike. They REMOVE the O2s completely and.... make bikes into gas hogs. Been there.... done that.....

And... in Central Florida? You have arguably one of the best Harley Dyno Tuners in the world, right at you door step. Doc in Minneola. Doc's Performance Tuning. Google that shop. There is a guy with YOUR best interests at heart. He, also, will tell you, what I just told you, too! Ride over there and shoot the breeze with him for a bit.

And... watch how this thread goes. All kinds of folks will get on here to try to argue the points I have given you. Some with TRUE passion, too. But.... there will be NO ONE argue Doc isn't the MAN!!!!!

 

Hi,

How about next time you get a bike in with pipes and AC show us the AFR result

Over in the touring section there's blokes running stock bikes for thousands of miles with no issue,

Thanks
Mirrmu

 

I have a stock 103" with true dual Vance & Hines headers with Rinehart mufflers, an exposed K&N filter with just a billet aluminum cover on the end. It runs great with no issues. It's my understanding that some bikes are different though, guess I got lucky.

 

After adding 2:1 exhaust, AC and XIED's my bike ran way better than it did STOCK.

 

Hi,

I got lucky too, ac, xieds and pipes dyna 96ci

Still waiting on pistons to go out side of motor ,hehehehehehehehe
Thanks
Mirrmu

 

And... just one more time.... How do YOU know they are actually doing fine? How do THEY know? Because someone does something and they... feel it is OK.... does NOT make it OK. I'm just saying, too. I have a full understanding that the "Money Effect" is truly in effect here. Money Effect: Since I spent MY money on this... it HAS to be good.

I was NOT trying to change anyone's mind, but the OPs. Some folks will not listen to save their own lives, but... a few will.

Carry on. I am. And I am, in the hope that the OP contact Doc and hear the truth of things.

Good luck doing pistons without a tuner, BTW.

 

Hi,

Thanks
Mirrmu

 

Hi,

Lets just see some AfR runs of stock bikes and stage 1 bikes without tuners to see what all the fuss is about, does it take it to 15/1 or 16/1?

What happens when you hit WOT on a stock bike? Modified bike without tuner? Cruise etc?

I requested appointment with dyno man to get AFR and results and wasn't interested because he couldn't up sell me a device and time on his machine to cover his loan payment, hehehehehehehehehehehe

The OP can make an informed decision.

Oh well life goes on
Thanks
Mirrmu