I think your reading me totally wrong. Yes, I do have next to no knowledge, that's what the forum is here for, correct ?

I don't have a problem with the bike, just a minor annoyance that I will correct. I'm am happy with the overall sound of the pipes, just not the popping which I'm sure can be mostly corrected with the proper equipment.

No one forced me to buy the pipes, I did that on my own. I knew there was the possibility of some popping before I bought them, I went ahead a did knowing I would be getting some type of tuner in short order when I changed
A/C. Those pipes were the pipes I " wanted " not a recommendation. My brother has short shots and I didn't like them, I heard the Big Shots on another bike, a 103 and liked the deeper sound much better.

I'm just exploring all options of tuners to make sure MY money is invested in the best way possible. I don't want to buy things twice.

Remember, I've only had the bike fore about 45 days and the pipes were put on roughly 2 weeks after purchase. All the upgrades have been creature comforts and upgrading lighting for safety. The A/C is the last thing on the list.

 

Reaper, I ride a '12 FXDWG and this year added cobra slip-ons along with an Outlaw A/C, and Xieds, among other things. My goal was to richen the afr, cool the engine a bit, and clean up the air going into the engine. This will make my engine run better and last longer, and it sounds a lot better.

I know a full tuner is in my future, as well as pipes (I like yours), but while I prioritze mods and funds, what I have is working great. I get very little popping (only from hard decel - which I shouldn't do anyway) and some great grumbling, all of which is a natural part of a normal tuned engine.

I have found that there is a lot of great advice and help here on this forum, and like anywhere else a lot of ego and attitude too. I've spent more time then some less then others twisting wrenches on my cars, bikes, etc over the years, but I am far from any kind of an expert. But I suggest that the more you research and ask the better off you are. Its your bike, I bet you will be happy no matter what you do, but do what's right for you, your bike, and your wallet. Your gonna have this bike for a while, and I always say sometimes its better to be more tortoise then hare.
Good luck on your mods

 

Well I setup my 2013 SG with American customs , lollipops 1/4 washers in each one for some back pressure, K&N 3930 and set of vied 10's set at about 35%, random pop here and there but not very often. Runs great and can get 45mpg if I ride it laid back
Closed loop is great but I feel it drop off a little on the freeway if I go open loop over 80mph. Just a little less crisp if get my drifted. I will be getting a Power Vision I just need to play with the tune more . I would say the vied are worth it but I want more so I will sell them and drop the coin for a PV.

Have fun chossin the path

 

Hi,

Yeah all the best man, the bike will ride good
Thanks
Mirrmu

 

went down the same road added a little here and there as I could .installed a K&N upgrade air filter first, then the xieds, found a set of Rinehart pipes that ran back to the rear wheel liked the looks changed them, bike ran fine all the way through, no problems, ended up adding a vance & hines fuelpak at the end.that really woke the bike up and whole set up was less than 600.00.bike runs very good but next year will try a power vision and see what difference that makes,

 

Many here can regurgitate the marketing claims made by some vendors/manufacturers with ease. They are completely convinced that a certain product will solve all their ills but have absolutely no clue as to why or how. And when challenged to explain just the basic working theory of an EFI system, they drop out of sight pretty quickly.

I'm just trying to get you to understand that a great deal of the information on this and similar forums is misleading at one end and completely false at the other.

I fully appreciate the fact that all I can do is offer the information...it is totally up to you to do what you want with it.



Then I have no idea why you (and others like you) spend good money on these and similar devices only to later learn what still others have been saying all along. So maybe I'll just chalk it up to the price of education.

Now with that said, I hope someday, once you've explored all options, we'll be able to have a cogent conversation as to just how the HD EFI system works and what's really required to get the system to operate near a more effective and efficient level.

 

The following is a good primer on how the HD EFI works-

The following information is based on conversations with our HD contact, our Delphi contact, HD Service Manuals, HD SEPST Documentation, TTS Documentation, and my own synthesis of years of experience with thousands of bikes.

It is probably not enough for some that may want a written explanation from HD or Delphi, but hopefully it will be of assistance to some in understanding HD Fuel Injection processes.

There may be some confusion regarding the term Adaptive Learning.

There are two ways the Electronic Control Module (ECM) adapts:

First, let's look at what input the ECM receives, so we know what it has to work with to make any "Adaptive" changes-

1. CKP - (Crankshaft Position Sensor): Basically this sensor monitors the crankshaft speed and position. The ECM uses the inputs from the sensor to determine what stroke the engine is in so it can deliver the fuel and spark at the desired time...

2. MAP - (Manifold Absolute Pressure): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to help calculate how much air is entering the engine.

3. IAT - (Intake Air Temperature): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to help calculate how much oxygen exists in a particular volume of air..

4. ET - (Engine Temperature): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to determine engine temperature...

5. TP - (Throttle Position): Provides input to the ECM as it reacts to throttle shaft rotation... These signals indicate throttle position, if the throttle is opening or closing and how fast it is opening and closing...

6. VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor): Provides input signals to the ECM to indicate the speed of the motorcycle...

7. BAS (Bank Angle Sensor): If the motorcycle leans over more than 45 degree's from vertical... If the ECM receives this input for more than one second it assumes the motorcycle has fallen over and shuts down the fuel management and ignition circuit...

8. O2 Sensor: The are switching type sensors (stock HD's are narrow band sensors used in closed loop systems) they provide inputs to the ECM based on the amount of oxygen is being sent in the exhaust system...

9. ISS (Ion Sensing System): It detects detonation or engine misfire in either the front or rear cylinder by monitoring the electrical energy at the spark plug following every time spark...If an abnormal level of energy is detected across two or three spark firings the ECM responds by retarding the spark timing in the affected cylinder as needed to eliminate it...

All of the above sensors give data to the ECM to allow it to ADAPT to the ever-changing environment. This is one of the ways the ECM ADAPTS.

The second way the ECM ADAPTS is via "Adaptive Fuel Value" or "Adaptive Fuel" (reference the HD brand Tuners to see that this is a feature of the ECM) This is commonly what is referred to as the Adaptive Learning Mode.

Adaptive Fuel is known generally in the EFI world as Long Term Fuel Trim (LTFT).

When in closed loop the ECM uses the information from the above list to calculate airflow, load, temperatures, throttle position, to adapt and maintain the targeted AFR in the closed loop section of the map.

It then uses the o2 sensors to determine what the AFR actually is. If there is a difference, the ECM makes an adjustment real time to the closed loop map, AND stores the difference in an "Adaptive Fuel Value" cell for future use in Open Loop. (again, reference the HD Brand Tuners to verify that there is an Adaptive Fuel Value" that is stored in the ECM and that is constantly changing)

Over time (sources vary between 30-120 minutes of riding) the Adaptive Fuel Value develops a correction profile that is applied to each cell of the map in open loop.

To put it another way, when the ECM sees the closed loop values constantly being richer than expected (like when using an XiED family product), the Long Term Fuel Trim (Adaptive Fuel Value) is increased, resulting in a richening up of the open loop values.

I hope this helps those looking for a clearer understanding of the HD EFI.

 

So Pinetree

When is a lower cost richer closed loop option a no go for you? Why is it a wrong choice? if money is tight and you can't afford a power vision spending a 120 so U feel better about your motor, what's wrong that. I feel for 4 months rent at 10$ a month is a great choice for a richer closed loop. Spend 120, resale it later for 80 than I am no worse off than buying 1 bottle of good octane boster for 10$ month so it won't Ping rippin down the freeway.
But with that said you can't beat a well tune engine done the right way.
Gas $ GO.

 

Hi,

Good reading I tell ya,

The thing is when I have added the SE air intake and now the full exhaust which is supposedly leaning the motor out I don't see improved fuel economy and when you give it WOT you see the fuel gauge drop

Yet the bike definitely has more go,

Thanks
Mirrmu