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To dyno tune or not to dyno tune

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  #11  
Old 11-22-2006 | 03:50 AM
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Default RE: To dyno tune or not to dyno tune

Try 159AE003-A0.MT6 Its the stage 1 for 96" non-touring exhaust.
It should be in your "MY2007" folder


Calibration # 67: 2007 Shotgun / Shorty Dual Exhaust with O2 Sensors
Configuration: 1580 SE A/C & Race Exhaust
File Name: 159AE003-A0.MT6
Components:
• 25deg Injectors P/N 27709-06
• SE Air Cleaner and Breather Kit P/N 29440-99C
• Race Exhaust
 
  #12  
Old 11-22-2006 | 12:22 PM
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Default RE: To dyno tune or not to dyno tune

Yep, I have the Cals. It was in a separate PDF file and I just missed it thinking it was in the manual. I also found calibration #67 and thought that was the closest to what I have. So now it's back to the manual. I may let the Harley guys do the dyno tune anyway and play with it after that. It sounds like the popping at decel is best handled by playing with the Decel Enleanment Table. Anyone care to comment?

[IMG]local://upfiles/17245/2CB099D07088416A8767D434163B2CCD.jpg[/IMG]
 
  #13  
Old 11-23-2006 | 12:50 PM
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Default RE: To dyno tune or not to dyno tune

If you take it to the dealer they will have a better set up than comes with the SERT anyway. They can actually read the current map in the ECM and adjust from there. That's waht the SERT should include rather than just an upload feature.
 
  #14  
Old 11-23-2006 | 08:39 PM
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Default RE: To dyno tune or not to dyno tune

If the dealer has a different setup, then why do I need to bring my SERT? I thought they use my SERT for the dynotune.
 
  #15  
Old 11-23-2006 | 09:03 PM
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Default RE: To dyno tune or not to dyno tune

This is the first time I heard the dealer can read the existing ECM settings!!!
 
  #16  
Old 11-25-2006 | 02:07 PM
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Default RE: To dyno tune or not to dyno tune

Well, after talking to the mechanic who installed my V & H pipes and retuned the SERT I've had a change of plans. I've decided to not dyno tune for now and ride the bike for a few more days. Here's my thinking. The mechanic said he downloaded the STD SERT map for my setup, 2007 high flow air filter & Race Exhaust (#67). Next he said the only changes he made were to decrement the decel enleanment table by 3 increments for the whole range of temp settings. This probably won't mean anything to you unless you're familiar with using the SERT. These changes were made to reduce the decel popping. He said he thinks he has it pretty close and based on my own experience he's probably right. It rarley pops on decel. The bike is also running great. Much more power and torque compared to before I put the V & H pipes on. So I'm going to wait a while and see if the rare pop bothers me enough to spend some $ on a full dyno tune. I'm also thinking of playing some more with the decel table, maybe a little more enleanment though the mechanic said going too lean could cause too much heat on the cylinders. Anyone else have experience tuning the decel popping out using the SERT?

[IMG]local://upfiles/17245/4AA24C18888D477E9173239B9D75C1C2.jpg[/IMG]
 
  #17  
Old 11-25-2006 | 05:56 PM
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Default RE: To dyno tune or not to dyno tune

Marty,
Here's a thread we had last summer regarding how to remove the decel pop using a SERT. Read the entire thread to give you a better sense of why you use the VE tables to remove the decel pop and not so much the decel table, which seems to me to have little to no effect on reducing decel pop. As you read, you'll see how One_Screaming_Eagle and JamieWG were very helpful.

OSE and JamieWG's Help


Then on this thread I summarize what I did to eliminate the decel pop based on the above thread/knowledge. In this thread, I also attached a jpeg of the AFR table changes I made.

SERT Decel Pop Fix

Maybe these techniques to remove decel popping should be posted on a sticky thread as I have answered this question at least 3 time in the last month :-)

Jack
 
  #18  
Old 11-26-2006 | 01:53 PM
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Default RE: To dyno tune or not to dyno tune

Jack, thanks for this valuable info. I guess some of us newcomers keep asking old questions that have already been answered. If you don't mind me being a pest, here are a few more. I'm going to try your suggestions re increasing the VE tables to eliminate any remaining popping. I'm using the #67 map which is what my mechanic told me he used. This seems to make sense for a 2007 Softail with K & N filter and V & H pipes. When I looked at the AF table, it looks like most of the settings in the normal driving range are already red which means you can't raise them. I thought most of the canned maps ran the bike lean. If they are at their max value then I assume I can't run it any richer than the current setting. So the only way to make more power with these settings would be to advance the spark timing, then record data and see if I noticed the knock retard values climbing. I don't have access to a race track or deserted street so I'm not sure I could get a good data run. I'm pretty happy with the power right now and would like to concentrate on getting rid of the popping. Any comments?
 
  #19  
Old 11-26-2006 | 04:47 PM
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Default RE: To dyno tune or not to dyno tune

First, I’m no expert. I’m a newbie too, so maybe OSE, Jamie or Bob will jump in, but my .02’s says that if you’re happy with the way the bike runs, ie it pulls well, does not jerk at low speed (mine does a little), does not hesitate when gett’n it on, get reasonable gas mileage (38-44 mpg city) and it’s only decel pop you need to work on, then that can be accomplished without a dyno or even data mode analysis. Once decel pop is gone, you’re done. However, if you need to squeak every last bit of power out of the bike, then a dyno is in order.

Your logic regarding advancing the timing until it knocks, then back off a little makes good sense to me, however, I have not adjusted my timing yet as OSE suggested.

The other point you make on the already red AF cells (and here I assume you mean Air/Fuel, ie AFR, Air/Fuel Ratio?), a red cell is the max lean condition. Red in these cells mean the ratio of air to fuel is at its max. In order to richen up the mixture, you would want to reduce the cell(s) so that there’s less air per given unit of fuel. So you’ve got tons of margin to play with in these already red AFR cells.

However, a red cell in a VE cell, is max and you can’t go any higher in telling the ECM how efficient the cylinder is in getting air in and out.

The relationship between VE and AFR is pretty simple, but not intuitive. From all whole lot of testing and I assume simulation at the factory, the factory determines the efficiency of a given motor to get air in and out of the cylinder (like an air pump). And in some cases the efficiency percentage can be above 100%. Then they set the AFR the motor should require under specific engine loads, which is determined by monitoring manifold absolute pressure, ie the ECM forces the AFR to be met given a preset VE.

 
  #20  
Old 11-26-2006 | 06:54 PM
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Default RE: To dyno tune or not to dyno tune

Thanks again Jack. I suppose with a degree in mechanical engineering I should have figured out the lower the AF table value, the less air (A before F), hence richer mix. I'm getting ready to tinker with the VE tables and will let you know how it turns out. Re the AF tables, how did you come up with your changes? I'm curious what methodology you used to come up with those values. I took a quick look at the plugs and they look OK, mid greyish color. As I said earlier, the bike runs great with lots of low end torque, just the little bit of decel popping.
 



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