I'm saving it for future reference, but I assume I'll be using 14.5 instead of 14.6 since I'm not using the stock NB O2 sensors, thus am not running closed-loop.

 

yes, this AFR table will work on al setups. Just keep in mind that some MAPs have differn't load ranges and RPM's than others. But the same concept if fine.

 

I don't have any on hand experience with the Power Vision, but from everything i've read it sounds like a great product. With Fuel Moto and people like Iclick there is great support on this forum. I have only read a few negatives about it and they've only been software related (as is expected with any new technology) but I believe they have any issues resolved.

 

Yes you are correct. I usually set them to 14.5 in cruising on pre o2 sensor bikes that don't have closed loop as well. Since the bike is running solely on the tune.

 

Along with the Power Vision, I have the AT-100 (wide-band) option attached that's left-over from the PCV-AT setup I had before. Since my present tune is based on auto-tuning with the PCV for two years, I was thinking about using the VE tables this created and re-installing the NB O2 sensors. I don't think they would make much difference, but would keep it at stoich in the cruise range. I'm monitoring Lambda values in real time with the PV LCD display unit and it seems to be holding the line at near Lambda 1.0 most of the time in open-loop mode, not veering either way very much (maybe .99-1.01 most of the time). For that reason I tend to think adding the NB sensors might not be of any practical value. Even if they were re-installed I don't think AFR's will stay much closer to stoich than what I'm seeing now. The MAP and other sensors will adjust in open-loop mode for altitude, temperature, etc.

What do you think? If kept the wide-band sensors I could datalog at any time and adjust the map throughout the engine's operational range, but of course it will be running in open-loop at all times since the stock ECM can't run in closed-loop with them. Please tell me it's a harebrained idea, because I really don't want to bother with it, and I would hate to remove all this neat high-tech hardware.

 

The software and firmware has matured considerably since it was introduced, and the new PV Tune Basic and Pro apps have just been released. With Basic you can tune based on the stock NB O2 sensors, although I haven't worked with this and don't yet know what all it will do. The Pro version works with the AT-100 WB O2 sensors (optional) to tune the entire operating range, and will even tune ignition timing by using the knock-retard feature in the ECM. You don't need a laptop computer on-board to tune with PV, as the kit comes with an LCD display that will show many useful gauges, flash the ECM with new tunes, and datalog. I'm now monitoring engine temp, throttle position, instant MPG, average MPG since last reset, gallons used since last reset, Lambda (front and rear, from the AT-100), and gear position in real-time. There are probably another 20 parameters available for monitoring, too, but you can't get all of it on one or both six-gauge panels. There are about 10-12 gauge panels to choose from, showing 1-6 gauges, some digital and some analog.

I just installed the AT-100 cables a few days ago and have yet to perform a tuning datalog session, but have been doing some datalogging just for practice. These CSV logs can be viewed in MS Excel and are used by the PV Tune software along with several ECM parameters to create tunes. It isn't as complex as it sounds.

If anyone is interested in following the sticky PV thread in the ECM/tuning section, please feel free to participate.

 

I have a feeling i'm going to tell you exactly what you want to hear. I see no value in removing your wide band o2 sensors and replacing them with stock NB sensors. Like you pointed out, you would lose the ability to datalog with the stock NB sensors. And as much as you like to experiment, I thnk you'd be bummed out without datalogging.

 

You can datalog and create tunes with the NB sensors, but just not over the entire operating range, which is probably what you are referring to. I honestly don't know how the PV Tune Basic software works with the NB sensors, but I need to find out so I won't sound quite so ignorant when discussing these things.

Yes, I think I can get more out of the PV with the WB sensors, so thanks for backing-up my prejudices! I'll be doing some tuning soon using your AFR tables. BTW, just out of curiosity, why did you insert 12.8 from 5000+ @ 20-60 KPA? That sounds a bit rich when you're presumably decelerating in that range. I had it set to 14.0 there in my PCV-AT Target AFR tables, but I had no rational basis for doing it. It just sounded like a good number to put there. I notice that Jamie uses 12.9 there, even up to 80% TP.

 

Actaully, I didn't make changes to those areas of the MAP, that is the stock, "canned" setting from SE. but to answer your question, those RPM and MAP ranges are typically only seen under deceleration, so I leave them rich to aid in decel popping.

 

Sorry to sidetrack this for one quick question, but on stock bike is it possible for an 02 to go bad? If it does will it make the bike lean out? Only reason I asked is the front cylinder O2 had some black on the sensor while the rear was a chalky white... With the new exhaust now I can clearly see its leaned itself out since the pipe was glowing red. Thanks for any info and sorry to hijack.