Originally Posted by KeyResults

I've been using the AT process on my 20 FLTRK 114 stage II. I have the PV2 along with HD Smart Tune Pro / WB02. On the PV I just use the Target Tune selection during AT sessions.

For the purposes of log tuning/analysis, I am thinking that the dynamic nature of the TT or Smart Tune Pro would render the ve data inconsistent. "A moving goal post."

Perhaps, I'm over-thinking things, but I am wondering if there is a way to disable smart tune corrections while logging? Or how others deal with my situation.

Thanks,
K

Originally Posted by david barnby

In AT mode the closed loops are switched off. AT for getting the measured AFRs close as possible by multiple hits in as many VE cells as you can reach..

Load the new tune and let the TT do its closed-loop thing with the ECM. (Assuming you know how to set it up in the map you load)

Originally Posted by KeyResults

I have been thinking that the PV 2 Target Tune functionality, while in AT mode, also disables stuff like Decel EN, Accel EN, among other things that a log tuner would require for a full tune.

I have used the DJ AT process and the VE tables are dialing in, but I'm thinking ahead now to beyond AFR. I guess I am trying to get a log without Target Tune intervention if that's possible. Perhaps, the unchanged signals are in there and I just don't know what they are called or cannot access them?

I am not really articulate, so I am hoping this makes sense. I don't always say what I mean, or mean what I say

K

Originally Posted by david barnby

you can data log without running autotune. Is fairly clear how to do this on the PV. You can also apply DECEL etc straight from the PV, But better to do it in WINPV as then it will be in the loaded tune not on top of it.

suggest you read the PV manual thoroughly, it is all in there.

Originally Posted by KeyResults

No, it isn't.

I'll try one rephrasing the issue once more:

The issue isn't logging with or without AT on the PV. The issue is getting a good log of VE's under normal running mode when DJ Target Tune or HD Smart Tune Pro & WB O2s are installed too. I do not want Target Tune / Smart Tune involved in the data that is logged.

There is no place - that I have been able to find - in any manual that addresses this situation. That's why I am asking here.

If there's a trick to it, I haven't found it.

K

Originally Posted by 1250sportster

Is the usb cable a mini a or mini b usb cable?

Originally Posted by david barnby

First thing to get a grip on is that the map Jamie sent will be an AFR map based on your set up (in this case, stock engine, slip ons and filter flowing more air than stock)

When you Autotune there is no change to that map. The PV is measuring the actual AFRs from the sensors. If the AFRs are different to the map the VE table will be adjusted to compensate the differences. When you write this version back to the ECM it will use these VEs to keep the AFRs on track. If you Autotune again the VE changes will be far lower of none at all.

if your bike is running closed loop it uses the sensor feedback to do the same thing.

On my bike the map was set up on a dynojet Dyno. So the map from that was my base. I use Target Tune with It’s wide band sensors Permentantly on the Bike. I run closed loop for every cell but Autotuned first many many times to give the ECM less closed loop work to do.

i spent a riding season with gauges set on the PV watching both AFRs, Revs, MAP, ET, HT and fuel consumption. I determined as many variables as I could riding hard on highways, what happened on grades without dropping a gear, what happened in heavy stop go traffic, what was going on riding long fast flat straights at low revs in high gear and then adjusted the reference AFR map from the Dyno. I knew when I wanted to Richen AFR to keep engine cooler on traffic, how far I could lean it up on lower revs with low MAPs to improve fuel consumption knowing the bike was rolling fast with plenty of cooling air etc.

with all this info I adjusted the AFR map and made that my new reference. Autotuned as much as possible, looked at the VE table and made my own decision for the cells not reached in the Autotune process. Remember, many of the cells are unreachable on the road because max load at lowest revs is an unnatural act for example. This is another reason why the Dyno better and faster. With final Autotune, VEs smoothed etc the ECM gets updated with instructions for closed loop in every cell.

Dyno guy told me stock ignition table good enough and you can check with Jamie for his opinion, until you have done the above for your fuelling I would suggest not even looking at timing events unless you can actually hear pinging as you ride. Once you got the Fuelling where you want it then dig into the ignition but take your time.

Sticking with WinPV is a good idea. Spreadsheets and more capable tools really not necessar.

Seriously consider the Target tune module with its wide bands. If you still have catalytic converter in the headers the mufflers and air filter flow ability is less relevant as the cat becomes the bottle neck followed by heads, valves and cams (but you get into new dimensions once those thoughts start to bug you)

Try to use revs vs MAP (essentially load on the engine, the MAP sensor is measuring the pressure in the induction system, you will see MAP increase as the exhaust gets louder when you hit a grade, poorly tuned bike gets louder but little more power in these conditions), measuring TP instead of revs shows the cause not the result.

there is a great pdf out there if you search it up which describes HD ECMs. I have it and read it ten times. Also any of the books out there on Amazon on Electronic Injection systems are great learning tools. They all predate your machine but are still relevant. I have read many since I bought the PV. I have a 2001 Softail with a fully modified engine and induction system that was set up with the PV on a Dyno and a 2010 Touring that has been through the same process. The Softail had
s the earlier ECM so that only works with the Autotune module. No close loop and I stick the sensors in only when I change discs in the Supertrapp or something else. The Target tune module, it’s sensors and PV live on the Touring bike all the time. I do regular 1000Km rides on it and enjoy the extra info on the gauges in the Batwing...

Originally Posted by david barnby

ha ha - no mate, that would be really silly. Read what I wrote more carefully.

to Lift the cover, the Dyno guy chose the AFRs for the base map based on what he knew about the build (CI, Cams, Headwork, pipes and air filter. He then adapted the VEs for max power across the range. He for sure knows what he was doing and we had a great day playing. We got what I wanted, 120TQ from 2,000 to 4,500 Revs where it starts to drop. Touring bike that needs to run full cruise control speed up and down the hills on Autobahn fully loaded with lady on the back.

Running an Autotune after this work would be a waste of time. You are right, would be a big Huh?

i didn’t “think I could do better”. I knew I could optimise it further. I could have taken it back and have the Dyno guy do it but as he sold me the PV so I could do this he would wonder why. A Dyno tune is essential after modding the bike and setting it up for max power. Is over the top for mods that can be experimented with using the PV

But I found the way I was using the bike (read what I wrote) it made sense to change the AFRs (no need fuelling for max power in a zone where the bike is cruising - PV will show you where this is at on the road) and lean AFRs in a zone not even looked at or measured on the Dyno (idling in traffic) means hotter HTs (again the PV will show you this)

loving the PV is not enough, you need to understand it and know how to use it.

See the results in the pics of temps vs AFRs. Shots taken after a hard run and within the couple of minutes it took to flash the ECM. Was a deliberate demo I did last year.

hope this helps...