I believe this is normal behavior. Our bikes don't stay at a steady state even though we tend to think they do. The Lambda values move up and down as factors change and the bike adjusts. The reason the tuner uses a certain number of "hits" is so that it doesn't set the values based on some outlying value.


fluctuation is normal, sounds like you are getting close. The final evaluation is how it is running, not what a certain value is. These CSV files record a certain point in time milliseconds apart.

I normally set the default threshold to 30. It is very difficult to get more that 30 hits at any once cell in the upper throttle ranges. It takes about 10 seconds to get that many and it is hard to stay at a certain rpm at WOT.

My changes seemed to level out around <2% change and I believe it was good enough. Being sure to hit all areas is important.

 

Is the POP happening at a certain temperature? For instance, when the bike is already warmed up? You can reduce the amount of cranking fuel at the temp you are seeing the pop. Have you set the VE values yet? Getting the VEs close seem to take care of a lot of other little issues.

 

I rode the bike to work today and at the end of my shift when I started it it POP, it was sitting in the sun all day the temp here is around 20 celus.

 

When I checked the cranking fuel on my stock calabration it is a little lower than the one from fuel moto, should I lower it a bit?

 

Looking for some insight. I have a 2010 SE Ultra with a number of engine upgrades, Woods 408 cams, Hillside heads, roller rockers, 58mm TB, 5.3 injectors, D&D FatCat. I have 18K in mileage and the bike runs great. No burps, stumbles, backfires. Great off the line and runs strong to 6000. Flat torque curve with greater than 110ftlbs from 2800 to 5800rpms Getting 39-42 mpgs.

The bike was tuned using the DynoJet PV by JDS Cycles in Roselle Park NJ. Dynoed at 115hp/119tq.

I run with the PV hooked up on my handlebars and was looking to "play" somewhat with the Basic AT feature using the stock O2 sensors (12mm). I've used the SEPST and it's auto-tuning capabilities before I moved to the PV, so I'm very familiar with the tuning tables and what they can do (or not do).

I'd like to use the Pro AT but I really don't want to go through the trouble of swapping out the smaller bungs for the larger 18mms that I would need to use the Pro AT. I figure the day after I make the bung swap out, someone is sure to launch a replacement WB O2 sensor for a 12mm bung that's reasonably priced.

That's the background. Using the stock NB O2 sensors with my dyno-tuned map and the PV's Basic AT feature, I get no recommended VE changes. I'm assuming that's because my dyno-tuned map doesn't run anywhere near stoich for most of the map. Is it correct to assume that if I am not running VERY close to 14.6 AFR (1.00Lambda), that I really can't use the Basic AT?

I realize I should just be happy with my current performance but I like learning new devices and am looking for insight on options to better maximize my use of the auto-tuning capabilities of the PV. I've taken many data logs at varying loads and speeds. I checked the Basic AT's recommended timing which was slightly lower than the dyno-tuned map. I tried the new PV-recommended spark advance map with the recommended lower timing but DEFINITELY felt lower performance from the saddle. So I went back to the original dyno-tuned map.

I've attached 5 charts for anyone to comment on that has some thoughts on using the PV's Basic auto-tuning capabilities with the stock NB O2 sensors with a fuel map similar to mine. Thanks for any insight you might want to share.



Dyno-tuned AFR table



Dyno Tuned Fr Cyl VE Table



Dyno tuned Rear Cyl VE Table



PV Log Tuner Recommended Front VE changes after multiple Data Logging with at least 20 minutes of data.



PV Log Tuner Recommended Rear VE changes after multiple Data Logging with at least 20 minutes of data.

 

I would adjust it to match the stock calibration and see if it helps. You can always put it back.

 

The stock O2 sensors can only tune at or around AFR 14.6/Lambda 1. You have to put the bike in closed loop to do basic tuning. If your map is not set to that, you will get no VE changes. If you want to check the VE values, set your map to AFR 14.6/Lambda 1 and do some tuning runs. Just because you set the AFR to that for tuning doesn't mean you have to leave it there. You set the map to that value to get the data you need for tuning. Some folks leave the calibration at 14.6/1 in the cruise range but others change it to open loop after the VE values are set.

To enable closed loop Lambda values must be between .977 and 1.02 or AFR must be 14.6.

Note: If you set your AFR table to 14.6/1, I would also back off about 4 degrees on the timing for the tuning run. 14.6 will run hotter than the 13.65 your bike is set to in the tuning range now.

However, if your bike was tuned on a Dyno using the PV, your VE values should be very close. A good Dyno tuner should be able to give you a better map than you can do yourself but I understand wanting to use the tool you have,

 

On my 2011 ultra if I don't turn off closed loop while logging I get values on the .990 to 1.2 lambda using Pro mode in the cruise cells no matter how rich I have the a/f ration set in those cells. I refer to 2000 - 2750 rpm's and 40 - 60 Kpa. Seems the ecm has a mind of its own if closed loop is set to on. The 2011's are different from the earlier years since it is all rpm vs. kpa. Throttle position is not in the equation is seems.

Waiting on my new AT as the old style 2 unit version keeps locking up and acting weird.

 

Yes, but Lambda readings of .3-.4 leaner than normal sounds a bit much. I'm even seeing a few instances of 2.3-2.5 Lambda, which must be false values since the bike would surely stumble if it encounters that extent of leanness. The bike runs well with the exception of a pop now and then on quick decel, so perhaps a Decel Enleanment adjustment is necessary, but that's minor. There's a range around 5 TP @ 2000 RPM, normally encountered only at slow speeds like riding through a 30mph zone, where it is too lean and gurgles too much. It's always been too lean there and I'm thinking about increasing the VE value in that range manually, perhaps +5 for starters just to help it along. It may be tuning slowly in that area but if so it isn't fast enough.

On my last tuning session I set it for 40 and even tried 20, but I'll go to 30.

There is still a problem with WOT, as I'm showing no WB2 hits above 3000 RPM at all. It should at least show the hits, even if there aren't enough to make any changes, as they are clearly showing up in the CSV. I made three runs from 2500-6000, plus another three to 5000 in the next gear, and PV Tune shows no hits there.

I'm now being told that DE, AE, PE, Closed Loop, and Adaptive Learning need to be disabled prior to any tuning, which is the first I've heard of this. I've had CL disabled, of course, but not the others. We need some detailed documentation for this process, and I believe that's coming soon.

Another tidbit that isn't documented anywhere is the notion obtained from DJ that we should be using one AFR value for the entire table when tuning, like 13.0. I'm not sure why this is, and Jamie told me to stay where I am. I think the idea is to do the tuning at 13.0 and when finished plug in your desired AFR or Lambda values, but I don't see why you shouldn't plug in what you want from the outset.

 

That should take care of it, as it did for me and Dennis.