NB is very useful and generally lets you generate an accurate VE table.

WB such as with the AT-100 WB kit is better, because it lets you dial in the VEs while running much richer, Hitting high MAP low and high RPM with NB can be hard on the engine, specially in a hot environ.

As to the Target-Tune...

The TT can do WB VE mapping just like the AT-100, but it also lets the bike run in closed loop over the WHOLE table...not just in the cells that are 14.4 - 14.6 to 1.

The Delphi ECM has a temp sensor/etc but it is a pretty basic setup compared to a modern auto...It can try to compensate for air temp and pressure but it is not perfect... Within closed loop areas, the ECM will quickly compensate for air density effects on airflow and efficiency but in open loop it is only a guess... You can see the impact if you say do a tuning run early morn at 45deg and humid then at 90deg and dry...The table will shift.

Now, you can partially compensate for this by getting things generally dialed in and then carefully collecting data spread across the full temp/altitude range you ride in (going for the median), but there can still be shifts in the open loop area.

Example...I have a 10:1 static 107cu with ported heads, andrews 48 cams, FM 2-1-2 and E series mufflers... I take a yearly 1200 - 1500 mile trip around the state and last year was towing a 500lb trailer... I was logging data from the wideband sensors (AT-100) for the whole trip and analyzed after.

Most of my riding (and all mapping) in home area is < 500ft elevation. When hill-hopping on the trip (up/down/up/down/up/down 2500 - 3500 feet elev) at ~ 50 deg the combo of temp and altitude shifted the entire 60kpa and higher 3000rpm and higher VE table down and right 1 - 2 cells due to the changes... This is all open loop area and the effective shifts in VE were 5 - 15 percent in a whole group of cells...

I picked up a TT upgrade kit to replace the AT-100 because I don't want a long 10% grade climb towing a 500lb trailer to have the engine running at 14.2:1 instead of 13.6:1 like it should have been...

Needed, no - Nice to have, yes! It gets you closed loop everywhere allowing auto-compensation for air-density shifts from temp and altitude everywhere instead of just at cruise 14.4:1 range.

 

Thinking about changing the AFR in my cruising range (2000-3000rpm) to 14.4/5. Does this change for cruising have any negative effect on the other five gears?

 

Absolutely, the cruising range of your AFR table can be hit in any gear. If you cruise at 60 MPH in 5th gear and are at say, 35 Kpa and 2400 RPM you can be in the same area of the AFR table in say 4th gear at around 50 MPH and so on. Cruising range of your AFR table isn't gear specific, just like the demand areas (i.e. 100% column) can be hit an any gear.

 

nothing negative other than operating very lean. the table does not care what gear you are in, you could be at say 2700rpm in 3rd, very light throttle, and be smack in the cruise area of AFR table. JMO, others may feel different- the purely cruise area is more of 2500-3500rpm and 30-60kpa. That's the only area I'd set super lean, due mainly to the very advanced timing in those cells and lower map load.

If you are cruising 6th at 2k rpm, that is kinda low for a tall 1:1 gear, potential for lugging the motor. I don't ride 6th under 2500 even with my 30/70 pulleys. I know some guys do ride 6th and other gears at very low rpm, this is just my view on it. we all do what we think works.

 

well said-

 

Thanks LA Dog, that's what I thought. I used to cruise at a minimum of 2500 rpm until I did the 120" upgrade. I maybe wrong but with the tq at 140 it doesn't feel like it's lugging. I still downshift if I'm passing even though it pulls strong in 6th.

 

wow did this thread up and die or what? lol - I hope all of you are out getting some good riding in with nicer weather.

So I just did the Andrews 57h cams, new Hylift lifters, adj pushrods set at about 1.25 preload, redline 2050 oil. Jamie was kind enough to send me a decent starter map. Still working on tuning but so far the results are good- especially with the 30/70 belt pulleys.

 

Hmm I missed this post. are you still running the stock belt pulleys? with 140tq you should be snapping your head back in 6th rolling on, if you had say 30/68 belt pulleys.

 

I was thinking the same thing as far as drying up. I know I have been using the information from this section for the last three years. I love listening to different angles to get to the same end result.

 

yeh guess everyone is off riding and doing their thing. I'm sort of scratching my head with why my idle is going between 40-43map and if that's normal for 57h cams. seems to me it should be idling more in the 30-35map area.