Thanks Smokey- All good stuff. so yeh one can hope we can use the new TT AT in this manner. There is such a lack of detailed tech data that is leaves us to a lot of guessing and trying things based on assumptions. But if enough of us keep trying things like this we'll eventually know what works and what doesn't. I wish that DJ offered better in-depth technical resources on the product, its new features, and HD tuning in general. Try calling DJ tech support and asking these types of questions, and you'll get the silence / deer in headlight response. Or an incorrect answer, or conflicting answers. Unfortunately.

 

Smokey, you beat me to a response to this issue. The "dude" was Dynaulv that gave us the datalogging work around; and I used it until the later versions of AutoTunePro were released by DJ.
See here: #post12492681 and here: p.549
Using Notepad one could edit the logging results in the DataLog Tuner and eliminate the WinPV 2014 "Rushmore" formulas.
Or if one had an older version of WinPV, that would work as well.
All that said, TargetTune and MegaLogViewer work quite well.
I do plan to use the info Wmitz and Dog have provided to do some fine tuning over the weekend however--much appreciate their contributions.

 

Wmitz: what were the results of your "use the charge dilution tables" thus far? I will be waiting to hear what changes had what effects.

Dog: sounds like you've had some success using the PE and making step changes until you got your tune where you wanted it. Much appreciate that info.
I have not played with PE much at all, but you've peaked my interest. I'll let you know what I find out. Thanks.

 

Jet- good posts. I too used the work around and LT for awhile- It didn't really give me much that I felt was useful and it didn't feel right compared to actually looking at the raw log data. then i used a product "MyTune" from tunemyharley.com and that actually worked pretty good- it actually makes suggestion to timing based on VE, spark timing in a tune file and the resulting ride log data. it's actually pretty good given nothing else available like it. it does a much better job than LT, that is certain.
But- it only "subtracts" timing as suggestions. it does not tell you to add timing. It will tell you to add fuel in the VE tuning section where needed so that is nice.

best bit of info i found on using PE is setting it to enable at 2600, disable at 2800. TPS 90% enable and 95% disable. set the first 15 seconds or so of PE AFR to your richest WOT AFR - e.g. 12.8 - You want PE AFR at least one percentage point richer than your 90-100 column's richest AFR value. so if your richest 90-100 column AFR is 12.9 then you are good. if it is 12.7, then you are not good. The ECM will always use the richest AFR value when it is called on to deliver more fuel, so PE AFR always needs to be the richest value when activated. I run my AFR's richer here in Cali to compensate for the E10 crap gas.

 

That pretty much sums it up as far as I understand it. I like the fact that you included the "why" we should try to get the advance curve as close to optimal as we can. The bottom line is efficiency = power, weather your goal is performance or economy. The only thing I was going to add was what Smokey touched on. This should not be attempted in Basic because Auto Tune sets AFR across the board to 14.6 in order to measure VE with the NB sensors in order to protect the engine 4* of timing is removed. In Auto Tune Pro the AFR is set to 13.0 (if I'm remembering right) to measure VE so the rich fuel condition provides the protection to be able to work with the timing.

This is such a great thread, I'm still plowing my way through it, I'm on post 3124 and most of the features that we know on the PV are still in BETA. So Smokey I can relate to a lot of what your saying. Coming from a SEPST I can relate to all the logging and adjusting manually that the PV has made so easy for us to do.

 

This is probably two of the best pages in the entire thread in regards to discussing an advanced tuning method and process with the PV. I remember it took me like a week+ to get through this thread from beginning. I learned a lot of stuff and it led me to look to other outside sources for detailed info in certain areas.

I'm still thinking we need a "Harley Advanced Tuning Thread" or something along those lines.

Fat11Lo- Interesting bit on the BETA status of some features. Any further info on that and what's what?

 

Timing is the one aspect of tuning the dynnamometer is going to be the only way to achieve the optimum advance curve

are there basic principles for timing curve which can be followed?

 

We've got all the sensors needed, maybe not the software or access. By varying timing real time in very small time periods and looking at corresponding crank acceleration, timing matching mbt can found. Somebody worked this out in the automotive industry in the 70s, but that doesn't support EPA needs. This along with getting our VEs straight would eliminate dyno tuning. Don't think DJ would be for that. I think the cobra system does something similar for VE, but not timing... TT with this feature would be a perfect system. Perfect! Just my $.02.

 

How does one find MBT riding down the street?

People can get a very good running bike with the PV, whether finding MBT provides a big step up from home tuning I dont know,

 

Jet, I use the charge dilution to try smooth the ve tables, raise the valleys, lower the peaks.
Front cyl, 1875/2250 rpms +19 pts, 2675 rpms -11, 3000 rpms -17, 3375 rpms -11, 3750 rpms -5. Rear cyl, 0-1125 rpms +27, 1500 rpms +24, 1875/2250 +19, 3750 rpm -8, 4125/4500 rpm -10. The rear cyl ve at idle was around 65 while the front is around 70.5, by raising the charge table the ve came up to 70 also. Like I said before it is time consuming. After each adjustment I do 3 auto tune sessions, to make sure the adjustments are sound. I don't try to balance front to back. Some will say it isn't necessary, but.... As a rule of thumb, from what I have seen, lower kpa will react more than 60kpa, same with rpms, lower rpms will react more than higher rpms. The hardest thing about this is guessing how much change to use on the first go around, and match the ve areas you want to work on with the charge tables.