Power Vision Information Thread
#7371
06-30-2015, 09:03 PM
Tourer
Ran 1 autotune session ended with it saying -5 to -15 loaded the new map but did not get to much time on it.
Temps during the run were around 259 to 266
After the run with the changes ( short run) the temps were 255 by the time I pulled into the garage it was 277
The CVO Road King never got that hot. It did have a heavy breather , lowers and and S and S header
The Road Glide special has stock breather, stock pipe and no lowers
pretty sure the differences are why I am seeing higher temps than the CVO
The really odd thing is the Instant MPG being so high
Temps during the run were around 259 to 266
After the run with the changes ( short run) the temps were 255 by the time I pulled into the garage it was 277
The CVO Road King never got that hot. It did have a heavy breather , lowers and and S and S header
The Road Glide special has stock breather, stock pipe and no lowers
pretty sure the differences are why I am seeing higher temps than the CVO
The really odd thing is the Instant MPG being so high
#7372
06-30-2015, 10:16 PM
Hoping the experts here can help
I bought a new cable and license from Fuel Moto to be able use my PV I had on my 2013 CVO RK on the 2015 RGS I just got. Updated the license put the tun they sent on to the PV and installed the tune ( stock RGS with Harley Davidson Night Sticks on it)
I went for a short ride and the instant MPG was way high and it seemed to get very hot very fast. Bike seemed to run OK
Fuel Moto is closed and I did get a hold of Dynojet and sent them files, was just wondering if anyone else had this issue and what they did to fix it.
I bought a new cable and license from Fuel Moto to be able use my PV I had on my 2013 CVO RK on the 2015 RGS I just got. Updated the license put the tun they sent on to the PV and installed the tune ( stock RGS with Harley Davidson Night Sticks on it)
I went for a short ride and the instant MPG was way high and it seemed to get very hot very fast. Bike seemed to run OK
Fuel Moto is closed and I did get a hold of Dynojet and sent them files, was just wondering if anyone else had this issue and what they did to fix it.
The instant MPG doesn't work on the Rushmore bikes. Dynajet is aware of this and aren't planning to fix it.
Mac
#7373
07-01-2015, 12:01 AM
so much great info here for the PV. Just installed one on my 09 Electra standard along with a set of screamin eagle slip ons, and a S&S AC (Identicle to a screamin eagle AC) My question is, after flashing the closest corresponding map on Dynojets web site, I pulled the AC off after about 100 miles and noticed a bit of fresh oil dripping down the face of backing plate. I know if I left it it would eventually fill the bottom of the AC and start to drip all over cam cover or blow all over pipes etc.. I have read this is a pretty common problem and wondering if anyone has found a fix? Would like to sort it out before going to the next step in a few days, installing a new Danmoto 2 into 1 stainless header..
#7374
07-01-2015, 04:31 AM
Road Captain
so much great info here for the PV. Just installed one on my 09 Electra standard along with a set of screamin eagle slip ons, and a S&S AC (Identicle to a screamin eagle AC) My question is, after flashing the closest corresponding map on Dynojets web site, I pulled the AC off after about 100 miles and noticed a bit of fresh oil dripping down the face of backing plate. I know if I left it it would eventually fill the bottom of the AC and start to drip all over cam cover or blow all over pipes etc.. I have read this is a pretty common problem and wondering if anyone has found a fix? Would like to sort it out before going to the next step in a few days, installing a new Danmoto 2 into 1 stainless header..
http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/All-...ngines_c76.htm
#7375
07-01-2015, 08:15 AM
Stellar HDF Member
so much great info here for the PV. Just installed one on my 09 Electra standard along with a set of screamin eagle slip ons, and a S&S AC (Identicle to a screamin eagle AC) My question is, after flashing the closest corresponding map on Dynojets web site, I pulled the AC off after about 100 miles and noticed a bit of fresh oil dripping down the face of backing plate. I know if I left it it would eventually fill the bottom of the AC and start to drip all over cam cover or blow all over pipes etc.. I have read this is a pretty common problem and wondering if anyone has found a fix? Would like to sort it out before going to the next step in a few days, installing a new Danmoto 2 into 1 stainless header..
The blow back oil has nothing to do with your PV or tune in general.
#7376
07-01-2015, 09:14 AM
Thanks guys. I was considering a breather kit, as I just put one on my kids 2000 Road Glide with a similar setup and it solved the problem instantly. I will just have to use the stock breather bolts from the Harley AC and route my own hoses. I have to disagree that the problem has nothing to do with the PV or tune in general, as my bike has close to 70000 miles on it, and I have owned it since new. I installed the PV the other day with the screamin eagle slip ons and a stock AC and did a few Auto tunes. Was blown away at the performance gains specialy in the bottom end. Tons of torque, but within 40 miles, there was gobs of sticky dirty oil dripping from the stock AC on to Cam cover. I rebooted the PV with the original tune, and it stopped the blow by, so I am pretty sure there is a direct correlation between the Power vision and an increase in Crank case pressure. I have read several people with the same complaint as well. I cant explain it, and I know that it shouldn't affect it, but it does.. I should also add, that after I did the auto tune, my new S&S AC arrived and that's where I am at now..
Last edited by E Man...; 07-01-2015 at 09:18 AM.
#7377
07-02-2015, 06:32 AM
Stellar HDF Member
Thanks guys. I was considering a breather kit, as I just put one on my kids 2000 Road Glide with a similar setup and it solved the problem instantly. I will just have to use the stock breather bolts from the Harley AC and route my own hoses. I have to disagree that the problem has nothing to do with the PV or tune in general, as my bike has close to 70000 miles on it, and I have owned it since new. I installed the PV the other day with the screamin eagle slip ons and a stock AC and did a few Auto tunes. Was blown away at the performance gains specialy in the bottom end. Tons of torque, but within 40 miles, there was gobs of sticky dirty oil dripping from the stock AC on to Cam cover. I rebooted the PV with the original tune, and it stopped the blow by, so I am pretty sure there is a direct correlation between the Power vision and an increase in Crank case pressure. I have read several people with the same complaint as well. I cant explain it, and I know that it shouldn't affect it, but it does.. I should also add, that after I did the auto tune, my new S&S AC arrived and that's where I am at now..
Sounds like, as you say, the increase in power provided by the new tune, and perhaps some of the throttle twisting you did on the butt dyno caused the engine internals crank pressure or something to increase the blow-by.
If there is a way to decrease blow-by via changing anything in the PV I'd love to hear about it. I hate the idea of that oil being fed directly back into the cylinders even more than it leaking all over the cam cover, side cover etc.
#7378
07-02-2015, 09:01 AM
I hear you there. I just went ahead and installed a breather kit, by reusing the breather bolts from the stock AC and adding a K&N crankcase breather. Not as nice and clean looking as the shiny chrome breather bolts for the S&S setup, but problem solved! Haha. Im sure you hit the nail on the head that it is more related to my throttle twisting while doing the auto tune than anything else. Love this product. Playing with the Speedo recalibrate now. All these years of riding an EFI bike and not being able to tinker, I am enjoying the versatility of the PV..
#7379
07-02-2015, 01:01 PM
Can someone here help this gut out some. I am a tts guy and don't have the time to learn someone and a different tuner.
So, the tune seems to run well. I get some hard starts, after it's warmed up (like heading to get some fuel, then starting after fueling), but, it seems to work. However, the temps do seem to get warm still.
I did an auto tune run to work this AM and it ran cooler than normal. Much cooler.
Here's a question:
If I flash the Fuel Moto map and run auto tunes to get the % of change really dialed in, would it be feesible to THEN adjust AFR? I was thinking that since a user on roadglide dot org forum explained this to another user:
I was thinking about using my stock map to go off of, since the VE tables should be spot on. If the VE tables shouldn't change from stock (without head or cam work or intake/exhaust mods) then the stock map should be loaded correctly, right? However, the addition of the stage 1 changes the airflow. Therefore the VE tables from the FM maps would be better calibrated to my setup. Additionally, FM timing/spark tables would be better calibrated to the cylinders' VE. So the use of the STOCK timing tables on a stage 1 setup isn't on exactly where they should be, since the amount and speed of air intake/exhaust has now been changed. Timing may need to be advanced or retarded to compensate for the new VE.
How I USED to see it is like this:
AFR is what you decide you want for whatever reasons (power, temp control, fuel economy, etc). Volumetric Efficiency (VE) then trims it to the AFR you've set.
The way I see it NOW is like so:
Cam, head work, air cleaner or intake, and exhaust mods change the way/speed and some cases the amount of fuel and air the cylinders can process. To be EFFICIENT in this process of handling the proper amount of A/F in each cylinder the throttle position (TPS or TP) is sensed (thus telling the the ECM how much fuel is being injected) and the engine speed/tach is guaged to determine the SUPPOSED VE. If you change intake/exhaust then re-calibration needs to happen here.
After the proper VE is established then the AFR/lambda can be adjusted to the rider's desire. The ECM will already know what the amount of fuel to be injected at all the cells/areas of a TPS and RPM since the VE has been dialed in.
Other questions I have are:
What area tells the ECM that intake/exhaust mods have been made? I would assume that air and pressure sensors should be in the cylinders to properly monitor this, instead of TPS and RPM. If the airflow rate is SUPPOSED to be "X" with a stock intake and you upgrade it to a high-flow, then what's to tell the ECM that the amount of air flowing in is now at "Y"? The same query applies to the exhaust.
Also, what determines the best spark for a bike? I understand the need to adjust timing to suit the level or expected level of pressure of a cylinder to create the best combustion, but what measures that pressure?
Holy chit, I typed a lot...
Anyways, summary- I think I should use FM maps to AT the VE tables and then adjust AFR. Correct me anywhere I'm wrong please.
Thanks folks!
I did an auto tune run to work this AM and it ran cooler than normal. Much cooler.
Here's a question:
If I flash the Fuel Moto map and run auto tunes to get the % of change really dialed in, would it be feesible to THEN adjust AFR? I was thinking that since a user on roadglide dot org forum explained this to another user:
I was thinking about using my stock map to go off of, since the VE tables should be spot on. If the VE tables shouldn't change from stock (without head or cam work or intake/exhaust mods) then the stock map should be loaded correctly, right? However, the addition of the stage 1 changes the airflow. Therefore the VE tables from the FM maps would be better calibrated to my setup. Additionally, FM timing/spark tables would be better calibrated to the cylinders' VE. So the use of the STOCK timing tables on a stage 1 setup isn't on exactly where they should be, since the amount and speed of air intake/exhaust has now been changed. Timing may need to be advanced or retarded to compensate for the new VE.
How I USED to see it is like this:
AFR is what you decide you want for whatever reasons (power, temp control, fuel economy, etc). Volumetric Efficiency (VE) then trims it to the AFR you've set.
The way I see it NOW is like so:
Cam, head work, air cleaner or intake, and exhaust mods change the way/speed and some cases the amount of fuel and air the cylinders can process. To be EFFICIENT in this process of handling the proper amount of A/F in each cylinder the throttle position (TPS or TP) is sensed (thus telling the the ECM how much fuel is being injected) and the engine speed/tach is guaged to determine the SUPPOSED VE. If you change intake/exhaust then re-calibration needs to happen here.
After the proper VE is established then the AFR/lambda can be adjusted to the rider's desire. The ECM will already know what the amount of fuel to be injected at all the cells/areas of a TPS and RPM since the VE has been dialed in.
Other questions I have are:
What area tells the ECM that intake/exhaust mods have been made? I would assume that air and pressure sensors should be in the cylinders to properly monitor this, instead of TPS and RPM. If the airflow rate is SUPPOSED to be "X" with a stock intake and you upgrade it to a high-flow, then what's to tell the ECM that the amount of air flowing in is now at "Y"? The same query applies to the exhaust.
Also, what determines the best spark for a bike? I understand the need to adjust timing to suit the level or expected level of pressure of a cylinder to create the best combustion, but what measures that pressure?
Holy chit, I typed a lot...
Anyways, summary- I think I should use FM maps to AT the VE tables and then adjust AFR. Correct me anywhere I'm wrong please.
Thanks folks!
#7380
07-02-2015, 01:53 PM
Cruiser
questions....
This is the post from the other forum I was mentioning...
Originally Posted by Liquidr1
Im not really using auto tune to get best power, but best ridability. I used fuel motos map to auto tune with to perfect it and then played around with my air/fuel ratio table until I got it good enough to suit my needs. Im running 13.1 in most of the mid-cruise range of the table. Mostly to keep things cool. Fuel motos map is leaner.
Auto tune, is not a end all be all tuning solution. What it will do is correct the volumetric efficiency table for front and rear cyclinders to match your the flow of your AC/exhaust/cam combo. The ECU then uses this new VE table to keep the set A:F exactly what you have it set to in the A:F table. You can then display real time A:F from the wide bands on the power vision to monitor what your A:F ratio is actually reading. Once you done some good long auto tune sessions, your A:F should be reading exactly or very close to what you set them to in the A:F table.
In simpler terms, after doing a good auto tune session, If you were to set the intire A:F table to 13.1, then you should be seeing 13.1 displayed by the wide bands on the power vision at every rpm/throttle (MAP) combination.
Now, if you want your tune perfect for the best power possible, your still going to need a dyno to measure power. But you've pretty much got half the work already done for your tuner person.
Originally Posted by Liquidr1
Im not really using auto tune to get best power, but best ridability. I used fuel motos map to auto tune with to perfect it and then played around with my air/fuel ratio table until I got it good enough to suit my needs. Im running 13.1 in most of the mid-cruise range of the table. Mostly to keep things cool. Fuel motos map is leaner.
Auto tune, is not a end all be all tuning solution. What it will do is correct the volumetric efficiency table for front and rear cyclinders to match your the flow of your AC/exhaust/cam combo. The ECU then uses this new VE table to keep the set A:F exactly what you have it set to in the A:F table. You can then display real time A:F from the wide bands on the power vision to monitor what your A:F ratio is actually reading. Once you done some good long auto tune sessions, your A:F should be reading exactly or very close to what you set them to in the A:F table.
In simpler terms, after doing a good auto tune session, If you were to set the intire A:F table to 13.1, then you should be seeing 13.1 displayed by the wide bands on the power vision at every rpm/throttle (MAP) combination.
Now, if you want your tune perfect for the best power possible, your still going to need a dyno to measure power. But you've pretty much got half the work already done for your tuner person.
Last edited by devildocjames; 07-02-2015 at 02:09 PM.