Yes, the values you save to a slot get flashed to ECM and auto tuned again. Each time the VE's get better for your perticulal build. When downloading the Tune to your computer, name it ( I use the date of the ride) you can also add a note in the description box. Then you can compare it to original and previous tunes as you build up runs. Cap at 127.5 if just a few cells,If you get a lot then you may need to scale( That sets your cubic Inch value artificially higher to give the VE's some head room) if you need to scale you'll Need to reduce your VE's by the same amount. i.e.3%. There's a lot learn in this thread, I always suggest reading the last couple hundred pages. There are better explanations than I'm able to give. I ain't the smartest kid in the class.
Still no clue to what's going on with lights and spedo other than basic troubleshooting.

 

Better to cap at the beginning. VE's may straighten themselves out.

If the cell/s are in an area you'll never hit......cap

If it's only 1 or 2 cells.....cap.....then manually blend the VE's.

if a bunch, 4 , 5 , 6 ,7 cells....in the sweet spot.....scale it.

Better, in my opinion, to cap it when out on the road. Scaling, if it's just one or two cells, can keep scaling it out of control. The decision to cap or scale really should be made based on which cell/s are forcing the cap/scale window to pop up.

 

So I just replaced my Supertrapp supermeg 20 discs, closed cap exhaust with a Rinehart 2 into 1, mainly as an experiment because I've been unhappy with the sound from the ST and as the ST is the only pipe I've had on this bike I wanted to see how a more open pipe could sound and perform.

Well, I'm disappointed with the Rinehart. First off it's too loud, but mainly I've lost a lot of low end torque...mainly right off the line. I basically have to give it a lot more gas to keep it from feeling like it's lugging off the line, whereas the ST was effortless off the line. Even at WOT, I think the ST had more torque, even though this seems counter-intuitive.

To review my tuning progress and constant fight with knocking, I decided to do an autotuning run for the first time with the new Rinehart pipe today. What I found is almost exactly the same result I found with the Supertrapp, which definitely flows less than the Rinehart...AT pulled my VE's back by 10-15% in almost every cell I hit. NOW I definitely do not trust that my O2 sensors are telling me the truth. I started with a base tune from Dynojet that was designed for almost my exact setup(heavy breather and V&H Pro-pipe which should flow almost the same as the Rinehart) and while i expected AT to pull back fuel when I was running the Supertrapp, I did NOT expect the same with the Rinehart.

Look at the pics of my O2 sensors when I was switching from the ST to the Riney. This much soot has got to be affecting the sensors. They are consistently reading the mix being overly rich, even when they shouldn't be. There is NO way the base tune from Dynojet could have had the VE tables set so overly rich, unless that's what they intended.

Which brings me to the big question...I notice very little difference between Dynojet's VE tables for different exhaust setups. They all are basically the stock tables richened up a bit in the power areas. So...does it really matter if the VEs are off 5-10% in the rich direction? I'll take slightly rich any day.

Would it be worth it to replace my O2 sensors with new ones? I can't seem to find ANYwhere to buy these newer Delphi ones. HD's site doesn't even list them. They can't be cheap.

For now I think I'm gonna go back to the Supertrapp and keep using my open loop tune until I feel I can trust the sensors. Or maybe just remove them.

 

[QUOTE=Red Dragons;13037581]So I just replaced my Supertrapp supermeg 20 discs, closed cap exhaust with a Rinehart 2 into 1, mainly as an experiment because I've been unhappy with the sound from the ST and as the ST is the only pipe I've had on this bike I wanted to see how a more open pipe could sound and perform.

Well, I'm disappointed with the Rinehart. First off it's too loud, but mainly I've lost a lot of low end torque...mainly right off the line. I basically have to give it a lot more gas to keep it from feeling like it's lugging off the line, whereas the ST was effortless off the line. Even at WOT, I think the ST had more torque, even though this seems counter-intuitive.

I'm running a Supertrapp Supermeg on my 2005 FLSTNI. It produces more low end torque and power than anything else I've been able to come up with. It was especially noticible when I added Andrews 48 cams. I tried drilled stock mufflers, Cycle Shack slip-ons, and Rush slip-ons with 2" baffels. None of them made enough back pressure, and resulted in soft low end response.

I was running the Supermeg with 14 disks and a closed end cap. It ran well with strong low end response. I picked up an open end cap just to experiment ($25 on Amazon). I'm now running the open end cap with 10 disks.

Low end is about the same, but mid range and top end performance has increased noticeably. In addition it gives a much deeper and mellower tone to the exhaust. It was very quiet with the closed end cap, but ran well.

You might want to try the open end cap. I was surprised how well it worked with my set-up.

 

My engine developed a misfire under load at 2200 to 2500 rpms riding two up yesterday. PV, Jackpot headers, super trap stouts, k&n A/C, se 255 cam. 25k without issue. What would the precedure be to rule out the PV/ECM or diagnose?

Spark plugs were tight and replaced 2500 mi ago.

 

I don't know Red, But I also had my VE's drop quite a bit in the beginning,Neither DJ or FM had tunes for my setup, S&S Power Tune Duals, with V&H classic 4" Turndowns, SEa/c
But once I stuck with one for True Duals, I just kept going, Trusting AT to correct my VE's to the amount of air flow coming in and going out.It eventually settled into a really good tune.
I would think running too rich can have poor performance also,like lugging or bogging down
if the airflow is too low for the mix.
My sensors look just like that,after all they do live in an exhaust pipe.With so few miles on em I would think they're good. They can be bought/ ordered from your local dealer or Kutter online $46 each, maybe cheaper elsewhere. Most are made by Bosch, don't get Chinese knockoffs if you do get some.Maybe get a baffle for the Rinehart to add a bit of back pressure. There are so many settings/variables available in WinPV maybe try looking at AE and/or CDE you may be getting some reversion throwing your O2 reeadings off. Or your Throttle Blade Control, My Transition Gear is set to 6 so it only uses the (Alternate)table. At this point I'm just guessing but trial and error (and reading this thread)is how I eventually got where I'm at.

 

Misfire under load is either fuel or electrical. Start by ruling out the simple things.
-sparkplug wires
-coil and connections
-bad fuel (recent fill-up?)
-clogged fuel line or filter
-bad fuel pump
-bad fuel injector
-verify all grounds/interconnects in the fuel and ignition circuits are good

I would also look carefully at the wiring to the fuel injectors. The wires have been known to break, sometimes internally due to tight bundles and strain relief. An intermittent connection will result in the conditions you describe. Wiggle the wires to try to find a break.

 

Makes you wonder what the "ABnormal" user level looks like. DJ needs to wake up. What the heck is a normal user level really supposed to mean?

 

Soot isn't going to tell you squat. What did the 02 voltages look like when you datlogged them? Or monitor them on the screen. They should be going higher and lower pretty quickly. It will be easy to see a lazy one just by seeing how quickly they're responding to the rich lean rich lean condition they're trying to accomplish.

What ever happened when you put the stock exhaust back on? Did it tune up ok then?

I think you're chasing your tail guessing at what the problem is/are. Take it back to step one (OEM parts) and try tuning it. A bone stock setup should tune up real good. If it doesn't, then you know to start looking at OEM parts or mechanical issues. If it does, put on your aftermarket air cleaner and AT it again. If it's good then put on either of the exhausts and AT it again. Eventually you'll find out which part is causing havoc with the tune. Guessing isn't going to get you anything. Big pill to swallow but return it to OEM and start from there. You can't blame the PV if you don't know which part is causing the problem, or if theres a mechanical issue.

 

I know you're right that I've been chasing my tail a little. And I know that starting from stock might help answer questions easier, but I'm just not willing to put all the stock crap back on to do that troubleshooting. It's not like it doesn't run well, especially when I'm using my tweaked open loop map. But I'm still concerned about the heavy carbon buildup and frequent knocking under high load.

I just switched back to my Supertrapp from the Rinehart and holy ****...the ST is by far superior in terms of torque. Comparing exactly same tunes, the ST blows the Riney away, most especially right off idle. But back on topic...

I'm still highly suspect of my O2 sensors, for two reasons:

1-when I'm watching the voltages while riding, the rear almost consistently shows a lower voltage(leaner) than the front, even though my VEs have the rear set far richer across almost the entire table. On the way home while running my open loop tune, the front was averaging .85 and the rear .65 while cruising. That's just not right. And I JUST reinstalled the exhaust so I know it's tight with no leaks.

2-my AT sessions, both on the Supertrapp and Rinehart pipes, lean out the VE tables 10-15% in the cells I hit! That results in a leaner than stock table and I have high flow intake and exhaust! You can not tell me that is correct!

I'm more willing to spend $100 to replace both O2 sensors for the purposes of diagnosing than I am to spend the time to take the bike back to stock. If new sensors act the same as the old, then at least I've eliminated the most important variable in autotuning, that being the accuracy of the sensors. I've also considered the possibility that the placement of the sensors in my aftermarket exhausts might not be perfectly ideal. However, in the Supertrapp headers, the sensor is fully exposed to the exhaust stream and it doesn't require a reducer.

To answer your first question though, yes, when i'm running closed loop the sensor voltages do go up and down rapidly. I just don't have any way of knowing if they are accurate voltages unless I replace them.

I have to add that today while the sensors were out of the pipe, I soaked them in Seafoam for a while to get all the previous soot and possibly any other contaminant off them. I don't know if this was a good idea or not, but Seafoam condones this procedure on their website.